Pnp wonder bust by the Turtles for hire

MAC-9

Chiliarch
you know what i find funny? after playing a chess match and winning it, one of the pawns on the losing side just started talking as if it knew any of what was going on the whole time other than having someone move him up a space or two one or twice. who is this kal gordon guy? and why is he talking as if he is on DV's level? haha
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
And here we see yet another example of an MGGA leader thinking that you are only allowed to have an opinion if you are at the top of the rankings. Are there any MGGA leaders that don't have some sort of superiority complex?
 

DeusVult

Chiliarch
you know what i find funny? after playing a chess match and winning it, one of the pawns on the losing side just started talking as if it knew any of what was going on the whole time other than having someone move him up a space or two one or twice. who is this kal gordon guy? and why is he talking as if he is on DV's level? haha
It's a pawn for a reason


This one seems to be a bit of a simpleton.
 

Silver Witch

Phrourach
And here we see yet another example of an MGGA leader thinking that you are only allowed to have an opinion if you are at the top of the rankings. Are there any MGGA leaders that don't have some sort of superiority complex?
Lol what have I done? Thats a sweeping statement Kal.

 

DeusVult

Chiliarch
Apparently the answer would be one. I did phrase it as a question.


However the rest of your compatriots are not presenting the best image of MGGA's leadership.
I already tried reasoning with you, but you are a clown who doesn't know how to play the game but talks a big talk.

You can't compare wacotitus to the traitors, we didn't stack him with 3k fts each so he could go hunting around in your core.

Heres the thing, and this is why I don't respect your opinion. Not because you are at the low end of the rankings, it is because you talk a big talk but you don't walk a big walk.

You have had almost no effect on this world, nor on your team.

What have you even done in the 6 months you've played on en97? Nothing significant for sure. Except for a whole lot of talking on the externals...

Maybe learn how to actually play first? You certainly have enough time to write essays on the externals all the time
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
I already tried reasoning with you, but you are a clown who doesn't know how to play the game but talks a big talk.
Your "reasoning" consists of telling me that you must be right because you are higher in the rankings than I am, and using 2-faced debating techniques.

You can't compare wacotitus to the traitors, we didn't stack him with 3k fts each so he could go hunting around in your core.
I can compare Wacotitus with anyone who switched sides the other way. You criticised Olympicwar and Sohni EST for swapping sides while having cities in your core ocean. That is exactly what Wacotitus did to us. Or is this another one of those cases where you are allowed to do something, but we aren't?

Heres the thing, and this is why I don't respect your opinion. Not because you are at the low end of the rankings, it is because you talk a big talk but you don't walk a big walk.
Well, it looks like you've been lying at some point then. Because you have a history of saying that my opinion doesn't matter because I am not in the top 100 ranks. So either you are lying now, or you were lying then. Also, I have never claimed to be a brilliant individual player.

You have had almost no effect on this world, nor on your team.
Unless you have someone feeding you information from inside Noobs (and you claim that your team never uses spies), I don't see why you would claim to know whether or not I have had any sort of effect on my team. If I was useless for the team, I would have been internalised long ago. Unlike MGGA, Noobs wasn't really an alliance to have players just for the sake of having numbers.

What have you even done in the 6 months you've played on en97? Nothing significant for sure. Except for a whole lot of talking on the externals...
If I haven't done anything significant, what about all the MGGA players who have grown and/or fought less than I have on this server? Even going on pure ranks rather than the ratios, I am outscoring various MGGA players. Does that make them insignificant?

Maybe learn how to actually play first? You certainly have enough time to write essays on the externals all the time
If I don't know how to play, then perhaps you should have taught some of your players how to play as well? And actually I stayed away from writing essays on this forum for quite a while. What caused me to even post in the Pagasae forums again was your self-glorifying essay about how MGGA played completely cleanly and was more honourable than the other teams.
 

DeusVult

Chiliarch
about how MGGA played completely cleanly and was more honourable than the other teams.
The truth upsets you huh?

Keep talking


Speaking of lies how about we talk about how your entire alliance and leadership perpetrated the lie that we were going to scam all our branch members out of a crown?

I enjoy the fact that whenever i bring that up you guys go silent or dodge it, quite amusing really:)
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
The truth upsets you huh?
Funny, but false.
- MGGA got cities in our core via a defector (Wacotitus), which is one of the same things you criticised Olympicwar and Sohni EST for. MGGA no cleaner than anyone else.
- MGGA member (shaz) proven to be using spies. MGGA definitely dirtier than some other alliances.
- MGGA leadership in some way consented to the use of spies: the player using spies was either a leader at the time, or was promoted after (and despite) it coming out that he had used spies. MGGA definitely playing dirty.

Oh, and well done on avoiding all the parts where you implied that a bunch of your own team are either insignificant, or don't know how to play the game.
 
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DeusVult

Chiliarch
Funny, but false.
- MGGA got cities in our core via a defector (Wacotitus), which is one of the same things you criticised Olympicwar and Sohni EST for. MGGA no cleaner than anyone else.
- MGGA member (shaz) proven to be using spies. MGGA definitely dirtier than some other alliances.
- MGGA leadership in some way consented to the use of spies: the player using spies was either a leader at the time, or was promoted after (and despite) it coming out that he had used spies. MGGA definitely playing dirty.

Oh, and well done on avoiding all the parts where you implied that a bunch of your own team are either insignificant, or don't know how to play the game.
-Noobs made it in a significant priority to use the advantage given to them by traitors, MGGA did not.
-Even if shaz did use spies, it doesn't matter to us anymore, after the dishonorable actions by your alliance.
-Twist it however you want, MGGA leadership never condoned spies. However, Noobs leadership planned hand offs with traitors in the enemy core. Noobs definitely played dirty.

Speaking of lies how about we talk about how your entire alliance and leadership perpetrated the lie that we were going to scam all our branch members out of a crown?
 
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Kal Gordon

Phrourach
-Even if shaz did use spies, it doesn't matter to us anymore, after the dishonorable actions by your alliance.
- It's not a question of "if". We've all seen the proof.
- You claimed that MGGA played cleanly. The fact is, they didn't.
- Shaz happened before the things you blame us for, as did Wacotitus' defection. So actually we could say that MGGA kicked off any dirty aspect to the war.

-Twist it however you want, MGGA leadership never condoned spies.
There are two ways this worked:
- Shaz was a leader when he was using spies. Therefore a member of MGGA leadership condoned the use of spies.
- Shaz wasn't a leader when he was using spies, and was later promoted to leadership. MGGA leadership would have known about the use of spies (he bragged about using spies on the externals at the time, accidentally outing his spy in Owllusion in the process, and it was later proven that this wasn't a one-off thing) when they promoted him. By promoting him to leadership, they considered him someone fit to represent their alliance. Therefore they were condoning the use of spies.
- Shaz claimed that his use of spies was with the knowledge and consent of MGGA leadership. He only backtracked on that after a community backlash about the sort of player that made him, and the sort of alliance it made MGGA.


Speaking of lies how about we talk about how your entire alliance and leadership perpetrated the lie that we were going to scam all our branch members out of a crown?
Hmmmm.
- I don't believe that it was ever perpetrated by the entire alliance, as you claim? Perhaps try to keep your accusations believable.
- It would not be entirely unbelievable. En96 Olous saw a single founder decide to screw his entire coalition out of a crown (after he had got his). En94 had Thermopylae turn on one of their long-term allies out of boredom, screwing up the shared WW plans that were already being made. I am sure that more experienced players could list various other cases in which one or more players have screwed their teammates out of crowns, from before I joined the game. Given some of the behaviour already shown by MGGA (such as recruiting a large number of players in order to wall off Noobs and form a buffer in front of their wonders), it wouldn't surprise me in the least if members had disappeared rather than stick around and help share the crown.
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
how about no alliance played clean, you are all equal in your use of story telling, and the world is over
stop trying to rewrite the world that neither side had traitors (used em or not), had bad leadership calls, or told falsehoods
mgga won, doesn't matter if other alliances tried to go for ww's or not
start acting like grown ups and as a wise man said a page ago, shut it and MOVE ON
 

Thizzle

Strategos
LOL you are still going on here... Server is over, get over it lol

I can definately confirm Noobs played clean without any dirty tactics... You can ask your own players

Anyways new server should start soon. Hope to see you all there

Over and Out
 

Silver Witch

Phrourach
Lol since we are still arguing i think i will add something. i do have a slightly diff view to deus here.

Firstly us - we didn't use spies. Your allegations are based on a comment by Shaz that he had spies in shady leadership. Realistically how likely is that? Shaz has admitted he made it up and Im sure PK would agree it just didn't happen. I really do not agree with spies, i wouldn't use them.

Secondly Noobs. Whilst I think the actions of the traitors were despicable, I don't consider noobs did anything wrong in taking advantage. It was our fault that we accepted 2 such pathetic players into our alliance. Hopefully we learnt from that. Lets be honest it livened the game up anyway.

Wacotitus - I don't see him as quite the same. Yes he had cities in your territory but he hadn't been with you that long, they were not your internals and we didn't swap them with fighters to use against you. He was with you for a short time and joined us so i guess could also be considered a traitor.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Firstly us - we didn't use spies. Your allegations are based on a comment by Shaz that he had spies in shady leadership. Realistically how likely is that? Shaz has admitted he made it up and Im sure PK would agree it just didn't happen. I really do not agree with spies, i wouldn't use them.
I am actually referring to an earlier case about Shaz being involved in spying. He bragged about having a spy in True Fear and posted their supposed pact/NAP list. As it turned out, his spy was in Owllusion (it was their diplomacy list he posted, but he claimed it was TF so that it backed up a claim he was making), but he was definitely using spies. Also, if you look at the "Oh Shaz" thread on this forum, you can see further proof that Shaz was making use of spies, as he sent a screenshot of Noobs' reservations to a leader in Hades. I am not sure if it was the same spy or not (I don't have the effort to check the timings of the two different things right now), but Shaz was definitely spying.

While I agree that it is unlikely that Shaz had a spy in Shady leadership, he has been proven to use spies in at least one other alliance. He may have been lying when he claimed that his leadership knew and approved of his use of spies (when he was claiming to have a spy in True Fear), but he has claimed in PMs on another server that he was an MGGA leader. If that is true, it does raise a couple of questions:
- Was he already a leader when using spies?
- Was he not promoted to leadership until later on? (By which point he had been bragging about using spies, and had been proven to have a spy in Owllusion.)

Either way, it does imply some sort of acceptance or at least knowledge by someone in MGGA leadership (I am sure Deus saw the proof that was posted here on the externals, and it is unknown to me as to whether or not Shaz was in leadership when using spies). I do not say that all of MGGA leadership knew/approved, but at least a portion of it would have seen proof of it here on the externals.
 

MAC-9

Chiliarch
I am actually referring to an earlier case about Shaz being involved in spying. He bragged about having a spy in True Fear and posted their supposed pact/NAP list. As it turned out, his spy was in Owllusion (it was their diplomacy list he posted, but he claimed it was TF so that it backed up a claim he was making), but he was definitely using spies. Also, if you look at the "Oh Shaz" thread on this forum, you can see further proof that Shaz was making use of spies, as he sent a screenshot of Noobs' reservations to a leader in Hades. I am not sure if it was the same spy or not (I don't have the effort to check the timings of the two different things right now), but Shaz was definitely spying.

While I agree that it is unlikely that Shaz had a spy in Shady leadership, he has been proven to use spies in at least one other alliance. He may have been lying when he claimed that his leadership knew and approved of his use of spies (when he was claiming to have a spy in True Fear), but he has claimed in PMs on another server that he was an MGGA leader. If that is true, it does raise a couple of questions:
- Was he already a leader when using spies?
- Was he not promoted to leadership until later on? (By which point he had been bragging about using spies, and had been proven to have a spy in Owllusion.)

Either way, it does imply some sort of acceptance or at least knowledge by someone in MGGA leadership (I am sure Deus saw the proof that was posted here on the externals, and it is unknown to me as to whether or not Shaz was in leadership when using spies). I do not say that all of MGGA leadership knew/approved, but at least a portion of it would have seen proof of it here on the externals.

aright kal. usually i skip your posts. i read a few early on and tried to get that time back but couldn't. but you speak as if you know about MGGA leadership and its inner workings. or at least your claims are based on that presumption. it seems to me that from your claims, you don't even have the imagination of what a spy could actually do if used by a competent handler. you inflate these claims of spying, but have no proof other than what other people want you to know.

You speak as if you are an authority on all things MGGA leadership. but what do you really know about MGGA leadership and how its operated in pags? you make wild accusations and claims with no proof nor "effort" into providing proof. you can act like the talking heads on MSNBC and tell everyone the russians did it all you want, but the funny thing is that it looks like you even believe yourself, when you know you are just assuming key details and using them as a basis for your next illogical argument.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
aright kal. usually i skip your posts. i read a few early on and tried to get that time back but couldn't. but you speak as if you know about MGGA leadership and its inner workings. or at least your claims are based on that presumption. it seems to me that from your claims, you don't even have the imagination of what a spy could actually do if used by a competent handler. you inflate these claims of spying, but have no proof other than what other people want you to know.

You speak as if you are an authority on all things MGGA leadership. but what do you really know about MGGA leadership and how its operated in pags? you make wild accusations and claims with no proof nor "effort" into providing proof. you can act like the talking heads on MSNBC and tell everyone the russians did it all you want, but the funny thing is that it looks like you even believe yourself, when you know you are just assuming key details and using them as a basis for your next illogical argument.
Not really.
- We have proof Shaz used spies.
- At least one MGGA leader (Deus) was reading these forums, and therefore knew that Shaz used spies.
- Shaz claims to be a leader. He may have been a leader while using spies. He may have been promoted later on, even though at least one MGGA leader knew that he used spies.
- So an MGGA player definitely used spies.
- It is quite possible that an MGGA leader either used spies (if Shaz was a leader at the time) or that MGGA leadership promoted a player that at least one of them knew had used spies.

I don't need to know the intricacies of MGGA leadership. All I need to know is that Shaz used spies (proven) and that an MGGA leader knew that Shaz used spies (which we know for certain, as Deus reads this forum enough to spot the proof). And unless Shaz is a compulsive liar, then it is quite possible that he is an MGGA leader, and was either a leader when he used the spies, or was promoted later on even though it was known that he used the spies. We have shown the proof of Shaz using spies on multiple occasions, and MGGA leaders dodged those posts, attempted to make excuses, or changed the topic.

So, despite you ranting at me, you haven't done anything to disprove the fact that an MGGA player used spies, and that at least some small part of leadership knew or consented to this (unless you are going to claim that Shaz is a compulsive liar and say that he was never an MGGA leader).

By the way, you made a comment about chess earlier. You do know that you can't win chess by hiding in a corner and avoiding the conflicts for the entire game, right? Also, I do hope that you don't force your opponents to allow you to have double the number of pieces if you do play chess. :p
 

Silver Witch

Phrourach
Ok Kal what i can confirm is that Mac/Deus and I do not agree with spying or underhand play. At no time did we act with any knowledge gained by spying and that Shaz was not a leader at the time of those alleged incidents.

Beyond that I can't be bothered with this - its all over anyway.

Next world we won't be using spies and nor will anyone else playing with us.