Your People talk to My People

erato51

Guest
Dear Goins,

For better or worse, your people talk to my people. I now have independent confirmation from several sources "what she says about the 13th is right" coming from your people! I have no confirmation about your plans regarding the Dukes which I am trying to psych out/deduce/hypothesize about as best I can.

:p

Indeed.

Cheers
 

Bahklas

Guest
I sincerely dont hope you mean me as one of your independant confirmations.
We are in sort of pact with 13th, which is we dont attack each other at this time.

All you need to think of right now is how to defend your cities. Dukes will get some when we reach them :)
 

goins420

Guest
We just need to listen:


King-of-Kings Damn Yankees 2012-03-09 09:48
Looks like some good targets there Turpa. Good luck to Invictus in taking them down.

panther99 also plays on server 31, Heraklion, and has one city there as you can see here http://www.grepostats.com/home/search?search=panther99+&type=player. If you monitor this second account it will let you know how active his/her main account really is. You can usually measure a persons activity by how they play on other servers with new accounts. Judging by this it looks like panther99 may now have changed hands, possible once again, and is either testing the game on a new server, using it as a communication platform or alternatively is tiring of playing on Nu or under TE. panther99 was forced, knowingly or unknowingly into joining TE before DY came into being due to communications between a core player in SF and TE to meet TE's demands. Breaking this account therefore is central to getting to the TE heartland around the south rim. But it will also serve to demoralise other players that were 'forced' into joining TE and use it as a defence bot account for their core players. Not much fun for Panther99 in all truth...

Crikee also plays on six servers as you can see here http://www.grepostats.com/home/search?search=Crikee&type=player and has 3 cities on world 32. This has only been going for a little over a week, so it might be a Hero World or a high speed competition world. If it is then he/she is unlikely to be spending much more time here.

Some TE players want victory, but do not want to spend another six months earning it. This is their weakness. As the game goes on, more and more will start to move to the new servers eager to test them and possibly play them. If they enjoy them, then they will leave Nu.

Cyrus

I am a little confused how he came to such an assumption as "do not want to spend another 6 months (now 4) earning it"... We have planned for this end since we knew it would be happening. Me thinks you guys spend more time over thinking than playing.

And counting on Invictus to do what you guys should be, shameful. No offense to the Invictus members, they try and gotta love that about them...

Now I got to get back to leading these players being forced to wave the TE banner. Hopefully they are cowering to my demands so i don't have to boot 'em :D
 
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Studpuppy4427

Guest
We may be in a NAP with the 13th but we are not running their ops and they have made it very clear that they want to remain self sufficient. Basically all the "pact" consists of is a tiny shared forum for some lulz.
 

erato51

Guest
I sincerely dont hope you mean me as one of your independant confirmations.
We are in sort of pact with 13th, which is we dont attack each other at this time.

All you need to think of right now is how to defend your cities. Dukes will get some when we reach them :)

I am referring to reports from the trenches and various conversations on Skype.
 

erato51

Guest
We just need to listen:


King-of-Kings Damn Yankees 2012-03-09 09:48
Looks like some good targets there Turpa. Good luck to Invictus in taking them down.

panther99 also plays on server 31, Heraklion, and has one city there as you can see here http://www.grepostats.com/home/search?search=panther99+&type=player. If you monitor this second account it will let you know how active his/her main account really is. You can usually measure a persons activity by how they play on other servers with new accounts. Judging by this it looks like panther99 may now have changed hands, possible once again, and is either testing the game on a new server, using it as a communication platform or alternatively is tiring of playing on Nu or under TE. panther99 was forced, knowingly or unknowingly into joining TE before DY came into being due to communications between a core player in SF and TE to meet TE's demands. Breaking this account therefore is central to getting to the TE heartland around the south rim. But it will also serve to demoralise other players that were 'forced' into joining TE and use it as a defence bot account for their core players. Not much fun for Panther99 in all truth...

Crikee also plays on six servers as you can see here http://www.grepostats.com/home/search?search=Crikee&type=player and has 3 cities on world 32. This has only been going for a little over a week, so it might be a Hero World or a high speed competition world. If it is then he/she is unlikely to be spending much more time here.

Some TE players want victory, but do not want to spend another six months earning it. This is their weakness. As the game goes on, more and more will start to move to the new servers eager to test them and possibly play them. If they enjoy them, then they will leave Nu.

Cyrus

I am a little confused how he came to such an assumption as "do not want to spend another 6 months (now 4) earning it"... We have planned for this end since we knew it would be happening. Me thinks you guys spend more time over thinking than playing.

And counting on Invictus to do what you guys should be, shameful. No offense to the Invictus members, they try and gotta love that about them...

Now I got to get back to leading these players being forced to wave the TE banner. Hopefully they are cowering to my demands so i don't have to boot 'em :D
Hi Goins,

Nice -- that was a joint forum post -- my initial reaction was to think it came from Turpa. So you've got a spy, either in Invictus or in DY. Okay. Also you're telling me you are confident enough to reveal that you've got a spy because you don't care that we know. Or that anyone else knows. Also nice. Good info to have. Will you ask your spy "to come in from the cold" or will you leave him at his post to generate paranoia? Very clever.

That's really different from folks having off line casual conversations about what's going on in each alliance, which you know and I know they do all the time.

Planting spies is something special.

Cheers.
 
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goins420

Guest
LOL No spies, just disgruntled members of DY. Don't think this alliance has ever asked anyone to spy, not my style. On the other hand, if someone sends me info that can be helpful....
 

erato51

Guest
LOL No spies, just disgruntled members of DY. Don't think this alliance has ever asked anyone to spy, not my style. On the other hand, if someone sends me info that can be helpful....
Wait, I thought you were going exit stage left or stage right or something? Weren't you?

Anyway while maybe there are disgrutled members of DY passing on posts to you but not based on your forum quote. If you had such a quote from the DY forums, wouldn't you have posted it? So my more direct. Cyrus frequently posts those analyses on our internal forums. The above came from a shared forum, so much less direct, so much more implicating our allies.

Let's get back to spies, sometimes people can even be spies unconsciously. Convince someone you are trustworthy and they may tell you things, especially if you are not only trustworthy but also friendly. I think that's what you did to Epist -- the man trusted you, that's why he was so crushed when you "couldn't get Juni to give up his city." That was so much better than any spy you could have planted.

As to exiting, why exit? We are providing the forums with entertainment. That hasn't happened for a long time. It's the avuncular Goins vs the cumudgeonly Erato. LOL.

Cheers
 

goins420

Guest
Just on the other thread, was getting to be a merry go round, sometimes if you stay on them to long you can vomit...

I liked epist, as I do the vast majority of players I have met on Grep, all different in their own way. I told him only the truth, giving up that city was Juni's decision, the alliance weighed in with their opinions, of course, and Juni's final decision was he wanted to keep the city. Our being allies at the time did not in my opinion mean we had to "assist" you in winning the world, and you can't tell me there weren't then or aren't now plenty of other islands to put 20 members on. Also, the city was taken by us before the player joined the DY/SF ranks, we were absolutely respectful of the pact we had, but here is another example of inviting our targets to your alliance.

epist was another guy thinking of joining TE, but he wasn't sure he could attack the friends he met in SF, together we decided that maybe he was better off staying and improving the alliance from within. You mentioned somewhere about SF tactics being "taking Dukes cities and cities from innactive members", that was exactly what he wanted to do, we both tried to keep our alliances from the situation we have now, DY sitting in the middle of the world and facing to many battle fronts. Seems leadership in DY just isn't thinking far enough ahead or way to far, but either way, diplomatically I think you guys may have slacked on this one.
 

King-of-Kings

Guest
The game is all about people, whereas alliances, all alliances in fact, are an artificial construct of the game. This is because they are prosumer driven. Namely all alliance leaders, core player, and moderators, are prosumers. A prosumer is someone who produces and consumes at the same time. In fact prosumers often pay for the privilege to make money for the company. So for instance, if making burgers were enjoyable then we would all be paying for the privilege to work in a fast-food establishment rather than playing here.

The only difference between alliance leaders, core players and moderators is that alliance leaders and core players do no receive any gold for their undertaking. But many work harder than moderators in truth and the people who I am talking about already know this. To me this makes the alliance leaders and core players hard done by. But what everyone may find interesting is that this type of MMO was originally designed this way. So all alliance leaders and all core players are actually the company’s first-line level of, well customer service. So whether or not alliance leaders and core players understand this, their primary role here is to serve the company (Insert preferred comment here).

Whether alliance leaders or core player like it or not, we help to keep players in the game and this keeps earning money for the company. If more people stepped back and viewed MMOs like this then things would become much clearer to understand. So perhaps you can now all see why alliances were invented in the first place. They were invented to help companies make revenue. That is the only role of an alliance. The reason why this MMO model tends to work is because alliance makes players excited and encourages them to play more.

Now the construct of MMO games varies. Some allow you to see what everyone is doing and at the same time prohibit personal communications. In these MMO models no one can deceive anyone else because all information is listed and on the forum for people to see. Later MMO models, like Tribal Wars and Grepolis (Which is based on the TW model) elected to obscure this information to encourage uncertainty because this drives their prosumer model. I suspect this is because it makes more revenue in truth. This breeds hyperbole that sometimes manifest itself in extreme viewpoints, rage and people leaving the game, often over misrepresentation. The reality is that communications between players rarely reflect the facts. In this respect facts are very hard to find. So to compensate an MMO like this offers a good platform to observe human behavior in ways that other online products do not. This gives people that are trained in doing this a distinct advantage over those that are not.

People play here for a number of reasons, but the real way to guarantee winning is to make friends, because the core game is actually a social network. Making too many friends however stops the company from making revenue, hence again as to why the company artificially tries to stop this with alliances. Until people understand that alliances are really artificial, they will fail to see the real life benefits one can actually obtain from a MMO. This is because some very interesting people tend to play these games as I well know. Meeting these people can change your life. So it is infinitely more rewarding to use your mind rather than using a mouse button.

While the quote offered about me by Goins is correct, it is taken out of context. This of course does not mean that this was deliberately done by Goins either, indeed any observation of my wider posts would show that I am a community player. So I am happy to help anyone irrespective of sides. So I help a number of people with things in the game from time to time, including perceived enemies, but only with understanding the game. In this case it was a new alliance leader looking for some assistance to judge a unilateral action. Many new players have no idea about Grepolis Stats and other tools available, so once again this is a prosumer driven post. Only when one sees it like this does it make perfect sense.

Where Goins is quite correct is in his summary of Epist. Like Goins I was fully aware that Epist was considering joining TE and as such was made aware of how he planned and compromised SF, especially leading up to the Adrenaline merger issue. Epist essentially tipped off Goins about a potential SF and Adrenaline merger by betraying the SF Council by offering information before it would have been appropriate to share, so one cannot blame Goins or any TE member for this, even if they recruited Epist to act covertly for them as that is between them and Epist. TE merely took advantage of the information that was freely given to them from Epist and then acted on it, as indeed I would have done as it was a critical move, but only in terms of V2, which was just about to be forced upon everyone here. TE then gave notice to Adrenaline that they were going to attack them after a particular time period. In the meantime a merge was agreed, despite Epist refusing to participate in it, which for now should be obvious as to why. Any informed former member of SF will remember that Epist stated that he would not be involved in any discussion over Adrenaline. Then, when it suited him, he would intervene. This resulted in both TE and SF members being misled. Once again supporting Goins claim that he was seeking to serve TE from within SF. So the issue that clouds this matter is Epist. Not TE, not the former members of SF, not Goins, not me. Epist. This is the problem when people elect to serve two alliances and believe that diplomacy counts for anything in a victory game like V2. In reality the real issue was brought on by the introduction of V2 because it changed the entire dynamics of the game and Epist failed to understand that it would play completely differently. Once both TE and the former SF members look at this more clearly they will see this for what it is. V2 has confused many players in the game so some decided to hedge their bets in order to win. I believe Epist was one such player. So when he could see that TE had the advantage he gravitated towards them rather than SF. Just as Goins has stated, he felt uneasy about attacking SF members. So he became like a double agent liking people on both sides and at the same time seeing promises made to him from both perspectives being broken. In this respect claims from both TE and SF were correct. But Epist was new to being a type of double agent. He simply placed too much faith in some people, when in reality; he should just have relaxed, enjoyed the game, joined whatever alliance he wanted and not waste time being manipulated by people because some people use the message system as weapon. I learnt a long time ago there really is no point talking to any player unless they can show they can be trusted, and those that share messages never can. In this respect I trust no one. Sadly he never quite grasped what I meant.

V1 is a tame animal compared with V2. Anyone here that is an established player of other victory games will know this all too well. This is why I was opposed to V2. Victory games actually can make people very nasty to each other and in reality InnoGames is very new to managing this type of MMO and lacks a great deal of experience here. This is why unification makes perfect sense. Victory games rarely end well and in time you will learn why. So the only thing you can really do is observe trends and conflicting patterns of behaviour to judge results. The bottom line is all issues in MMO games are caused through the company that create them.

When people are unhappy they move to play on other worlds or leave. It really is that simple. This is why those that rely on diplomacy end up playing a fools errand. There is absolutely no value of diplomacy in V2 unless unification is the key goal and as the game goes on this will become more and more apparent to everyone. So I think I can add another point to Goins finally sentence if I may. Namely TE will win as the maths currently stand and it has been that way for many months now, this is why I was surprised to see some TE members drifting to other worlds, but that is their choice. Everyone in truth is facing the same issue here, namely players are leaving but still want a free meal ticket. This is why booting tends to transpire before unification and unification is the most logical choice as it generally brings the real player together. Some worlds unify and some don’t. In truth it is the only way to beat the V2 prosumer alliance model given to us by InnoGames. Namely the game ends quicker, it saves everyone here more time and the score is 7 wonders rather than 4.

Thank you to anyone that has taken the time to read this. This is why all people need to step back and think for themselves and see all communications outside of the context of a prosumer driven victory game. In the end the only skill you can acquire in a victory MMO is how to spot people that are attempting to deceive and manipulate people. All too often those that want to win at any price end up being deceived themselves.

Hope this may help to put this in context. Enjoy your conversation here, but one tends to need a tablet before coming to the main forum because in truth it serves no purpose when a MMO design conceals facts from players. One reason many players rarely post anything or even visit for that matter – chuckle.

Cyrus
 

tiesto08

Guest
at the end of Wonder Era of Nu the most dedicated team will be the one that will win...the one with the more willing players to log in and feed 2-3 times per day the wonder(s) will have the 1st word for the Master of Nu(4/7 wonders)..i have some quite good experience made by The Legends of Orthia team of epsilon and can tip 2-3 tricks to my buddies of TE when Wonder Era Begins..
but feeding the wonders till that damn level 10 is a proccess that takes days(final level is pain in the )
i personally think that Ruler of Nu(7/7 wonders) will be very hard to be accomplished by any team as its a speed 1 server and 1 team wont be in time to grab all 7 at once..
 
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Temujin Khan

Phrourach
LOL, WOW! Over think things much??

To be honest, me and my simple mind couldn't even make it through the manifesto above, but you may benefit from looking at things from a simpleton's point of view. To do this, check out the world map. You'll see that TE is expanding in a direction that takes us into ex-adrenaline and SF territory. We were happy to take on adrenaline because we needed targets. When you guys merged, we were happy for even more targets. Its really that simple.

I can't speak for the rest in my alliance, but I can say this for myself: I play the game for enjoyment. I understand that innogames is making money. If I am enjoying myself with their game, I say good for them. I expect that pacts will be broken. Why? Because some players may decide that they need to attack something to keep having a good time. The players on the receiving end of the attack just don't have a choice in the matter.

Last thing before I go. Goins is the most soft spoken, behind the scenes leader that I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. You guys make him sound like some kind of evil genius that is methodically taking control of NU, using not only his own alliance but by infiltrating and manipulating the other major alliances. Now I know Goins is a smart guy, but do you really believe all of this stuff? I give him credit for forming TE and fostering an environment that encourages growth and activity. Giving him credit for the success of the 13th and the collapse of other alliances is a bit much. Not to mention totally offensive to our friends to the north.

TK OUT!
 

goins420

Guest
stud is right, just because we are battling does not mean we can't chat... What better place to talk than "Your people talk to my people" :D

Hope to see some reaction posts to the attacks and support from players, maybe we can have some fun on here just like we do in game.

I hear 13th has had some serious pressure lately. Are they standing up to it? Do The Dukes consider having the upper hand in members and points an easy victory when the time comes? What does JU plan to do with their future? Will they merge with their "academy" alliance and start creating some Wonder Islands? Are we all having fun?

Chat it up, all, continue the enjoyment here...
 

Studpuppy4427

Guest
Of course i'm right (;

I am having fun however i would be having more fun if some other people posted. <---- obvious hint

@the Dukes: i hear your cities are easily conquerable :p
 

goins420

Guest
good morning guys and girls

first i would like to tell we had few colonizations this week

our choosen islands are listed once again below

Island 125733 - ocean 22 contains 7 free slots and 3 ghosts - rest occupied by JU
Island 146270 - ocean 84 contains no free slots
needs 8 conquests
all new players are put on this island
who have plans to continue joined JU and rest remain as it is even having our invites
Island 128559 -ocean 73 contains 2 free slots - rest occupied by Ju
Island 121973 -ocean 32 contains 13 free slots and rest occupied by JU
but there is a small civil problem with this island
Dragonide40 of JU has made this as her base and does not want any of us to step in here
i opposed her but she is not ready to listen to me
if she does not listen we will shift our ww
so please dont colonize there right now and go for ocean 22 island

we have even this island
Island 125852 - with 3 legion cities and 5 free slots - rest occupied by JU
if any one wants those legion cities can have or the can solve this job

please contribute what you can for this alliance
with 25 colonizations we can have 4 islands filled up
and a small suggesstion to improve defense
it will be good if you have a city on ww island other than your main city which worships athena
so that we can have pegasus which are best defensive units and does not require transports
pleas every body change your god to athena in wonder cities
and must have minimum 1k briems
if you dont have ask your ocean leader or any one like me who does not have a ww city

sorry for a long message
regards


LOL Hey guys, let's have fun and take easy conquers, build some wonder islands cuz we all know how it sucks to try and take a city from an alliance that can support. Look at it this way, we can win by sending resources to islands and play some sim city LOL Dukes are a joke....
 

goins420

Guest
Come on guys, chat it up, it's not like your gonna spill the beans on something everyone doesn't already know anyway ;)

We are still here so we must be having fun, right? Let's keep that going here in the forums, nothing wrong with a little conversation...

If you want, just to spark some back and forth, I can let you know what TE has in mind, see what you think of our future goals. Some honest criticism is always welcome ;)

Probably (if I am lucky) I will see the same names here. Is there something wrong with encouraging members of your alliance to get on here and type their mind? This is the best opportunity we have to get to know each other, let's take advantage of it...