League Of De-loss

DeletedUser

Guest
I am not saying this is true (like the majority of comments on this page) it may not be.

I did not agree with what was in effect a 2 day NAP between BL and Foofies mainly because externally it would appear like this and provide great propoganda - but there was apparently detail that Foofies were only using the NAP to re-build troops and then join Venom - I don't know if that is true as stated above.

I would normally try and discuss things on a forum, but it has got ridiculous here.

You could argue that the timing of Venom's OP on BL was intended to coincide with this.

You could argue (as any player with Grepo experience would understand) that it would be suicidal on a day where people saw czar and 50k in abp which were aimed at BL for BL to send defence to LoD cities where there was at best a tripwire report.

You could argue that BL don't have any issues with Truc so why would they try and prevent their conquests.

But naturally none of this will be sensibly discussed so why bother.

Well, I myself heard about Truc\LoD war on te day we were having an OP on BL, however it was their first day of war so nothing could be predicted like LoD took 3 cities off Truc, So I dont even call it a coincidence, we are not pacted with Truc

question is, when BL asks LoD to colonize in 45 (use their Slots and Resources), why on earth they dont back them up?

BL wants allies and on the other side dont want them, you guys have been saying Grepolis is based on Diplomacy, where does it stand for you? not to support your ally when in need is Diplomacy? it does nt have anything to do with Venom hitting BL, you had enough Defense to defend both, the reality is:

You are too scared to start it with Truc, you know you will be crushed bad, if Truc starts the war with you, it is simple, you will be in Venom position 2 months ago, sandwiched by Venom and Truc, but you dont have the guts to do that like what we did, so You leave LoD to their own fates

Dude, Truth is always bitter, but it is what it is, I guess even the ones backing up BL before have found out how your strategy works :)
 

DeletedUser23971

Guest
I didn't say it was a coincidence - I said you could argue that Venom's OP was intended to coincide with the LOD/Truc war - it was well documented, no secret.

You didn't cover whether it was indeed true that Foofies had already agreed to join Venom when the NAP started, as I said - I don't know if it was true, some do - I am actually interested.

I think you will find Diplomacy is important, one of the great things about Grepo is you can always learn new things and after Venom arrived saying that they don't do Diplomacy it is good to see you trying it out.

How do you know how much defence BL has? The truth is ... you don't and you know it. In my opinion a few alliances had plodded along and had it deceptively easy, week after week of never being attacked and I believe some in BL gradually made the mistake of getting their balance between defence and offence wrong, but that is my opinion. I have after all been simming here as I have other worlds to finish off so my balance is probably overly defensive.

As for saying we don't have the guts to do what Venom did - that wasn't guts, it was poor judgement. I have no doubt Venom 3 will not act in the way you did at the start of Paros, you have already changed that approach and it took a lot of guts and dedication to get yourself out of the hole you put yourselves in.

I have already covered the majority of it but you won't think so. Whilst you think you are using the forum in a clever way, if you quote things you know not to be true as gospel, does that do your reputation with other alliances any good?
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
When people accuse BL of being manipulative and dishonorable in order to win a world by hook or crook, you take "great pride" and accept it. So I was just drawing an example from real world, though a bit exaggerated.

It seems my sarcastic tone went to total waste there....

BL made peace with Foofies and Chaos so they could gang up against us, then, they suddenly backstabbed them and had an op on them.

We agreed to a ceasefire with them, because we weren't sure whether there alliance would be able to withstand the continued onslaught of our extremely potent armies, but you can twist the facts in your favor all you'd like. Keyword there is CEASEFIRE. Meaning the war can start again at any point ;)

BL and LoD seemed the best buds the way BL was getting them to colonize in our areas and running sort of joint ops... Then again, when LoD were in trouble against Truc, BL didn't give a damn about the failing alliance. Instead just allowed it to fail completely and enjoy the spoils by picking up the top players.

Again we can twist the facts anyway we want, but regardless of that nobody forced LoD to colonize into the middle of the war zone. When that happened they weren't at war with Truc and they wanted to join in on the spoils of the inital V2
assaults which were so fruitful. Is it really so difficult to understand that?

To address your other point about us " supposedly " leaving them out to die aswell, that's nonsense. LoD came to realize that more than half of there alliance wasn't helping them, but just freeloading off a few players success. So we took in LoD and left the dead weight. Technically we saved our ally from a slow and painful death considering the 20 or so players we did take in we're the only people fighting the Truc war. So again spin the facts anyway you like

There is a reason when Venom was looking for peace because it was difficult to take on top 6 alliances at the same time, we didn't even think about approaching BL, because you never know when BL will turn on its word again. Yes you guys are bathing in success now, but alliances who don't have honor lose everyone's trust and break down eventually. :pro:

LOL!Honor is a relative term especially when playing an online video game. All I have to say is that BL wasn't the alliance who came on the forums and started flinging mud. Your starting to remind me of Parliament Hill a little bit. Just because you guys have started allowing diplomacy, doesn't mean you can come over here on your high horse and start calling us dishonorable. Everything I've seen from your alliance thus far on the forums is a big joke, regardless of the fact that your good players in game.
You are too scared to start it with Truc, you know you will be crushed bad, if Truc starts the war with you, it is simple, you will be in Venom position 2 months ago, sandwiched by Venom and Truc, but you dont have the guts to do that like what we did, so You leave LoD to their own fates

What are you talking about? This is probably the stupidest thing you've said on the forums yet. So if your objective is to make a fool of yourself, you've really done it this time.

Why in the world would we ever want to start a war with Truc? I don't know if we could withstand fighting V2, Villainy, and Truc, and quiet frankly I don't want to find out. The difference between BL and V2 however is that we're not going to put ourselves in that position and try to find out. I do know one thing however, BL is more than a match for V2 ;)

Also I already addressed this whole LoD nonsense, but I'm sure you and your cronies will continue to bring it up and try to spin the facts in your favor. Classic PnP, and I love every second of it!
 
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DeletedUser41390

Guest
So let me see if I have this right...
The people that started this war and took part in it have run off to hide behind someone elese's flag and left the rest to get monstered.
Is that about right?
loyalty seems a very rear thing indeed in this world......
 

DeletedUser39031

Guest
So let me see if I have this right...
The people that started this war and took part in it have run off to hide behind someone elese's flag and left the rest to get monstered.
Is that about right?
loyalty seems a very rear thing indeed in this world......
Yep..
 

DeletedUser15581

Guest
paperwait, since you are interested, we'll let you know, when you had your NAP with Foofies against us, they did attack us and took a city or 2 at the time we were rained hell from every direction. But when you seemed to turn on them again, they realized BL wasn't worth trusting, and that is when they decided to merge with us as we seemed to have the same enemies.

SF, it is getting rather pointless to talk to you, because you just don't understand what the other guy posts. Hell, you even added stuff to quotes which I hadn't posted!! (in the 4th quote of the post if your super duper fast brain can't figure it out)
1. I never said you forced LoD. The way they colonized on BL islands gave a clear indication of the deep understanding of the 2 alliances, which vanished when LoD got into trouble.
2. We are not riding on high horses just because we have diplomacy. We were honorable when we didn't pursue diplomacy. There is no one to backstab when you don't have friends. Now, when we are getting into diplomacy, again we will not backstab our friends like BL is known to do.
3. Don't even think about talking of flinging mud! doesn't suit you. Mud is a small word for what BL has done on these forums.
 

DeletedUser23971

Guest
If it was as simple as that then if I had been in Foofies position then I would do exactly the same as they did, honour is very important to me in this game. Whilst it is key to Diplomacy, it is also how I like to play - as you know I heard it was not a clear cut as it appears here and I have explained what was said.

If the situation was as bad as you have said, do you think players from LoD would have joined BL?

It is a shame that for some reason the Paros forum seems to be dominated by mud-slinging - more than any I have seen, it is probably why only the brave (or stupid ;)) seem to post anymore.

I am out of here as I actually enjoy the game and don't want that to change because of a forum that only involves attempts to point score rather than actually explain other views in a light hearted manner. As I could get dragged into it, it seems the best thing to do.

Good luck to everyone.
 
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DeletedUser15581

Guest
Players from LoD who moved to BL did what anyone would have done. BL was the only top ranked alliance around them and a good shelter against Truculence onslaught.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
If you think talking to me is pointless try having a look in the minor ;)

Also, the stuff I added into your quote wasn't on purpose. I meant to say that stuff about your quote, but regardless you've yet again failed to provide any real evidence for your claims, and continue to run around in circles spewing the same garbage over and over again. Its nice when you shut someone up and all they can say back is the same stuff, makes me feel like I've done a good job. You may know how to run an alliance, but you certainly can't debate with the big boys. Stick to your stuff ingame, at-least your good at that.

Oh, and you can say whatever you'd like about me, but the fact of the matter still remains. You have nothing to say in return to my points. ( Besides the same garbage you've been spewing! )
 

DeletedUser15581

Guest
that "garbage" is enough to drown you, so why waste more. I don't send 5 LS nukes to a city when spy report told me there are 10 biremes.
 

DeletedUser14786

Guest
Ok folks, let's bring this back on topic.

The main thrust of the points of several Venom 2.0 members in this thread is that Black Legion cannot be trusted to keep friends. This is patently false and clearly the intent is to attempt to isolate Black Legion for their own person gain. This comes in light of the fact that Venom 2.0 has had difficulty taking more than a handful of cities from us in any given op, despite their obvious immense effort. :) Clearly BL is fighting well to have forced Venom to take to inflammatory propaganda against us.

It is true that Black Legion and League of Delos had a very close relationship in some ways, despite the fact that coordination between the alliances was very small. Monord and I were both large players in o43 in the early days and had many conversations together. In the war between LoD and Chaos (Imperium) which determined dominance of central and eastern o43, BL members had an important hand in assisting LoD win that war. Until a few days ago, BL only had about 100 cities in o43, a number largely unchanged since May. We had agreed early on that we liked each other and were interested in pursuing wars in opposite directions - LoD into o53, and BL into o34 and o44. At various points in time we exchanged cities as positioning and refugee policies dictated.

There are some other alliances in Paros which BL has attempted to engage, and which diplomacy fell short of achieving a desired outcome, specifically Villainy being one. We began talks with them in June when they had 40 cities in o34, which we considered out ocean. However, by the time the talks ended Villainy had recruited up to about 100 cities in o34 and had opened up an academy in that ocean as well - feeding off of our targets. In light of the fact that Villainy has to this day only ever lost 4 cities to Venom 2.0 despite the fact that Villainy has a high concentration of cities in o45, a Venom 2.0 stronghold, it was safe to assume then (as it is now) that Villainy only ever had intentions of either simming the rest of the game or invading our oceans, both of which are crimes and a declaration of war. :p :pro:

In reality, I like the leaders of Villainy, and have had some wonderful conversations with Bolina. The Black Legion experience would never have been so much fun without wars against Villainy and Venom 2.0.

The recent island colonization in o45 was a conscious decision by Monord and MrShaw that stemmed from a skype conversation in which BL asked "Now that you've conquered o53, what is your next plan?" This question was not posed because BL was going to backstab LoD once they committed to a battlefield - it was to gauge whether there was a possibility of opening up a shared forum between the two alliances where members could coordinate conquests and defense. This is the time of the year when every alliance faces attrition, either from players going back to school/work or getting promotions. Having played grepolis for the past three autumns (and as a leader for two of those autumns) I was attempting to judge the best way to deal with the inevitable attrition. The decisionby Monord and MrShaw to found on that island in o45 was motivated by several logical reasons which I will not go into in this forum.

Ironically, it was those holdings in o53 which brought LoD into conflict with Truculence.

Well, I'm sorry to see LoD set back, I really like Monord, Rawtorp and the other LoD players. That said, their war with Truculence in o53 had nothing to do with BL, and besides, LoD fell apart from a leadership void - not some BL conspiracy. We all win some and lose some, and it looks like the ultimate winners of this round are Truculence.

Cheers to Doug and the Truculence crew. Cheers to Sereton for posting this thread, a final farewell to an alliance he liked.

Now everybody suit up, zip up your pants and stop being rude to each other. Like my grandma used to say, if you don't have anything nice to say, bend 'em over and shove an LS nuke up their (W)
 
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DeletedUser15581

Guest
I just gave my observations. BL is not doing well enough to force Venom into anything. Venom has other high ranked and more pestering enemies to care about. A few cities every op that Venom takes from BL is pretty good given the difference in "other pressures" the 2 alliances are facing.

Had I been in your place, after the close relations BL had with LoD which you gladly accepted, I would have helped them in 53, more importantly after it was always agreed by BL that LoD go to 53. Letting them being demolished there saying "not my job" is not honorable is what I said. Anyway, BL has done better in 1 thing over Venom, that is diplomacy. So what you chose to do doesn't seem wrong as of now.
 

DeletedUser8345

Guest
i believe that black legion is not to be blamed because it cannot support 2 allies at once that is trucelence and LoD
it cruel to start a war and then leaving the game and thats what LoD leaders have done
and ituralde i would ask u something
is taking a few cities out of the rank one alliance when all their members have their defence fully built up an easy thing to do when u already have a few attacks coming your way?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ituralde

once we Venom was called arrogant blah blah, we had to accept it, now BL is called backstabber, you write one page about not being it? what kind of logic is that? like whatever you say is true? naaaah, whatever we see is true

BL left LoD high and dry, no matter if you write 1 page or 10 pages about how BL guys are loyal and awesome and stuff, you proved it wrong in the act

When people who have played in other servers with some of BL guys say, they are backstabbers, they used the same strategy, giving false promises to smaller alliances to take advantage, and players here are seeing it, I guess there is something and it is true, so instead of defending, accept what you are, it s much easier and helpful for you :)

So long :)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Again with the he said she said stuff. Can you guys bring any relevant evidence to the table. The only people who are calling BL backstabbers are you (Darkcaver) and Czar. I haven't seen a single LoD player come on here and say we left them " high and dry ". Regardless of whether my in your face attitude is offending you, you still haven't provided any solid proof to your claims. Its just what you think... unfortunately for you that's not how things work, and in any court of law your case would be thrown out.
 

DeletedUser15581

Guest
No proof other than seeing LoD demolished by Truculence and you standing as by-watchers is needed.
 

DeletedUser14786

Guest
Venom has other high ranked and more pestering enemies to care about. A few cities every op that Venom takes from BL is pretty good given the difference in "other pressures" the 2 alliances are facing.

and ituralde i would ask u something
is taking a few cities out of the rank one alliance when all their members have their defence fully built up an easy thing to do when u already have a few attacks coming your way?

Very good points, Venom has to divide their offense between more alliances than BL, and BL was able to approach that last OP with defense mostly stocked. I fully understand your challenges, I have been there myself. :)

Ituralde
once we Venom was called arrogant blah blah, we had to accept it, now BL is called backstabber, you write one page about not being it? what kind of logic is that? like whatever you say is true? naaaah, whatever we see is true

BL left LoD high and dry, no matter if you write 1 page or 10 pages about how BL guys are loyal and awesome and stuff, you proved it wrong in the act
We are loyal and awesome and stuff. :) Yesterday I received a personal PM thank-you from an alliance member who decided to quit. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. I'd like to offer you a quote from Leo Tolstoy, as I feel it applies to this situation. Really it's a foil of the Socratic Paradox: “We can know only that we know nothing. And that is the highest degree of human wisdom.”
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Super Fast @ I have nt seen any LoD member here at all, it is not wiered. Proof, like a letter? picture? HELLO, it s Grepolis, what you do is proof, that s it

Ituralde @ You think you are, that s an assumption, reality is different
 

DeletedUser8345

Guest
BL has never been attacked so you cannot judge how good or bad they are
but everyone knows how good venom is
 
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