Your attempts to flatter the loveable Codfish are without basis. If you want a cause of current declining numbers, look to all the players in your alliance loosing interest due to poor leadership. No attacks planned, no proper defence despite overwhelming numbers... I have much anecdotal evidence to that effect.
If we want to look at historic causes, we need look no further than TD duplicity.
Oh jam, are you being deliberately naive? Or did you lose your mind while a member for 24hrs? lol. I have pm'd Arch to let him know that an alliance wide survey has been posted to gauge what we want to do, how we will go about it and let him know the results asap so we can move forward. However, pnp may be a "part ot the game" for you, but it is not for most people. It's rubbish, BS, distracting, off putting and completely avoidable and unnecessary. Trash talk is for the juvenile and best left to them. PNP while fun for some is equally as simple minded. It lowers someone to a level that is at best unbecoming and at worse less than their opponents. It's silly. And while people do it because the internet allows them a sense of protection and maybe a sense of false self worth, it just shows how phoney and fake the partakers are inspite of their howls of a supposed betrayal or their claims of trust, loyalty and honesty. Those that truly posses those last three commendable and admirable traits, don't need or have to pnp. However, some of us just cannot stand for the rubbish, lies and utter nonsense flung on this server in the hope some of it will stick. I cannot sit by while members of TD are pilloried for things that never happened or concocted by a player that was a one man band and made to leave or even bring up the distant past to supposedly justify current behaviour while in the end they cannot see their own hypocrisy, stupidity and how it makes them look.
What does trust have to do with it you ask? Arch and I are expected to sit down and come up with a plan to save the server that works for both TD and Apoc. How is TD to trust that the rest of Apoc will actually abide by what we agree upon when they violate agreements made? When they go behind backs and lie? When they play with no honour? The only Apoc player that actually plays with any honour is GP and will she be a part of the talks? Not likely, as it will be me and Arch. Will SC support it as he's a known schemer and liar? Will Ait get "bored" again? Like I said, other than GP and Arch, Apoc has to prove they can be trusted at their word and with their deeds to be able to honour whatever decisions are made to save this server. As it stands I don't see them able to and this pnp nonsense is just confirming it. And remember, them impeding OL from getting the fourth cave is proof that group will stoop to anything, including stabbing a pacted ally in the back.
All is fair in war as you say but agreements require trust, so working with that team requires trust. Proof of their ability to be trusted needs to occur BEFORE TD walks blindly and idiotically into an agreement with them again.
So where does this leave us Jam? Well, I will gladly sit down with Arch to save this server but to do that I need/want/demand more than the assurance of someone who was in the alliance for 24hrs. I will need actions of substance, proof as it were, that they are capable of honouring the agreement made. If not, then it is them that have doomed the server.
Now that's funny.
You make assertion after assertion with no regard to fact. In fact, the facts get in your way as they impede you from doing the only thing you are capable of doing, which is to lie and make stuff up. You are more and more sounding and acting like Nate.
Mike is this to do with in game actions or PnP, cause as far as i'm concerned all is fair in war and PnP..having been a long time member of apoca(about 24hrs) i can confirm they have their alliances best interests at heart
Well before my time. Pact or Nap it should be pretty easy to prove who is right and wrong by correspondence or lack thereof ..there are enough beefs in this server to make a million big macs. Or whoppers in SC's case (see what i did there love you Coddy!!)
Well, well, look what I found in our archives and I'm sure cra300 can find the original if necessary:
Effinel on 2014-07-24 at 17:13
Same here buddy. Glad it got sorted out in the end, I wasn't at all sure it was going to happen.
I've just got back from another ban and was surprised. After weeks of wrangling it happened in my absence. There's a lot of unrest on the forum though
Laters,
Eff InglriousB on 2014-07-24 at 10:37
To Gym, Eff, Blood and Red,
Just to say I'm pleased we've finally found a way to work together again. I'm committed to this NAP and building trust and confidence to take it further. Let me know if I can help in any way.
“Glad it got sorted out in the end, I wasn't at all sure it was going to happen”?
“After weeks of wrangling...”?
But I'm sure the next thing we will see from TD is to switch the topic to “There's a lot of unrest on the forum,” rather than addressing what one of their present founders said earlier in the quote, or we'll hear how what Eff said was fake too.
And Gym, Eff, Blood, and Red knew about it, not just Nate?
On the topic of Revolution:
”Generic Greek Name” said:
We did decided a merge was less costly from what I recall but and that conforms with Reds quote.. But we never actually attacked Rev as part of ZTs plans, We attacked ZT instead...
Inviting someone else's members is generally considered an act of war. Considering they were a sister alliance of NG, why would they merge into you instead?
On the topic of KKW:
Generic Greek Name said:
I Showed it with the time line and how your version of our actions wasnt consistant with that timeline. However the fact that you would selectively hold up a quote from one person is just a massive conformation bias on your part as you acknowledge you would be selectively holding up one quote that supports your claim while ignoring all the others that contradict it... Good job showing your honesty there Archi...
I've addressed this already. Your time line is not “proof” of anything. You took KKW in then you kicked him when you got called out on it. That doesn't prove you didn't know. It could just as easily be that you kicked him when it was determined that TE and Pan wouldn't allow you to get away with it. You know, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, that kind of thing.
Like I said, I was only a lay member just prior to this and even I was aware of the policy, though not all lay members may have. ZT members were aware of it (see below). Sir Neo admits it. Therefore it seems impossible to me to believe that TD council members were not aware of it.
James Rankin on 2014-09-24 at 10:02
Not so long ago, I was trying to talk an American ZT member into joining us in private messages....He ultimately decided against joining Pande but I was informed that he would not have been allowed to join us anyway because we had an agreed-upon policy in this alliance and with the entire coalition to not accept ZT members.
On the topic of Artemisia:
GGN said:
Forgive me here Archi, But Are you an idiot?See.. I dont like having to repeat myself so I will instead refer you back to my previous posts on the matter. The city Iam talking about here is (as I have already explained to you once already) not the one taken by Ait, But the one taken by Dokinjo. The one taken by Dok was as I have already noted taken two days before the end of the competition so dont bother trying to shift the goalposts.
Because you are accusing me of having known about this (see page 11), saying you sent me a message, when there was in fact no message. Having not found a message, you are changing the topic instead of apologizing for the accusation.
KKW again:
Michael Cook said:
Here's why it matters. TE and now Apoc has ridiculously regurgitated KKW as a message to supposedly prove some violation. However, there is no proof, no comms validating that assertion of violation. We were supposed to take your "word". If, TD had intended to violate this supposed "rule", we would not have kicked him out a couple of hours later, instead we would have just ignored it like Pan did with HNTM but we didn't.
There also isn't any proof that you didn't know, just your word and the fact that you kicked him after you were called on it. As I said, this is really not proof of anything. It is very common for people to push the edges of rules to see what they can get away with, because often they will get away with it, depending on how lenient the people watching are. Unfortunately for TD, the rest of the coalition was not willing to look the other way.
The coalition agreement:
Michael Cook said:
TD, post Nate, is supposed to trust the word of people that have proven we should never have trusted them at all. The bringing in of those ZT players did however violate the Coalition Agreement. One that was actually written and agreed to by the Coalition. That is why it matters.
Again, you want to have it two ways here. You sent us a message at one point that any agreements that had been made when Nate was in charge were no longer valid. I'm telling you that once the merge occurred, we were a new alliance and therefore the rules which Pan and TE had agreed to no longer applied. The rules, such as they were, had never, in fact, been ratified and agreed to anyway, though we all followed them de facto.
In any case, the ZT people who joined did so less than a week before the actual war began, so again, I hardly see how it really matters. We could use the same excuse you did for bringing Killer in if we need to, i.e., they provided us with intel.
Now this part I'm not going to hide:
”Michael Cook” said:
TD never ended their war with ZT, hence why ZT wanted and got a ceasefire to decide the future of their alliance. Now that ZT is still around, that war continues. Pan on the other hand stopped warring with ZT once they took HNTM on board and only have some ZT cities since then because of the defection of ZT players.
This is truly incredible coming from a guy who says he doesn't engage in PnP. (More on that in a bit.)
We absolutely did not stop the war on ZT once we took HNTM in. Maybe you should try confirming this with ZT instead of just saying it. Eventually ZT started getting far from us and maybe that is why the city counts were not as high as they had been previously. Furthermore, the war continued as previously once the merge occurred.
And it was TD that had a ceasefire with ZT while we were still fighting them. (That was a good tactic on TD's part to get more people to join since it made us look like the bad guys.)
The next quote is interesting because you are attempting a soft sell and then engaging in the practices you condemn in the first half of your message, which in itself is an amazing act of propaganda because you try to portray yourself and TD as being the righteous ones who have been wronged by the evil-doers in Apocalypse. (How many of us have posted on the externals versus TD members, by the way?)
I will highlight the sections which are blatant PnP:
Michael Cook said:
Jam,
Oh jam, are you being deliberately naive? Or did you lose your mind while a member for 24hrs? lol. I have pm'd Arch to let him know that an alliance wide survey has been posted to gauge what we want to do, how we will go about it and let him know the results asap so we can move forward. However, pnp may be a "part ot the game" for you, but it is not for most people. It's rubbish, BS, distracting, off putting and completely avoidable and unnecessary. Trash talk is for the juvenile and best left to them. PNP while fun for some is equally as simple minded. It lowers someone to a level that is at best unbecoming and at worse less than their opponents. It's silly. And while people do it because the internet allows them a sense of protection and maybe a sense of false self worth, it just shows how phoney and fake the partakers are inspite of their howls of a supposed betrayal or their claims of trust, loyalty and honesty. Those that truly posses those last three commendable and admirable traits, don't need or have to pnp. However, some of us just cannot stand for the rubbish, lies and utter nonsense flung on this server in the hope some of it will stick. I cannot sit by while members of TD are pilloried for things that never happened or concocted by a player that was a one man band and made to leave or even bring up the distant past to supposedly justify current behaviour while in the end they cannot see their own hypocrisy, stupidity and how it makes them look.
What does trust have to do with it you ask? Arch and I are expected to sit down and come up with a plan to save the server that works for both TD and Apoc. How is TD to trust that the rest of Apoc will actually abide by what we agree upon when they violate agreements made? When they go behind backs and lie? When they play with no honour? The only Apoc player that actually plays with any honour is GP and will she be a part of the talks? Not likely, as it will be me and Arch. Will SC support it as he's a known schemer and liar? Will Ait get "bored" again? Like I said, other than GP and Arch, Apoc has to prove they can be trusted at their word and with their deeds to be able to honour whatever decisions are made to save this server. As it stands I don't see them able to and this pnp nonsense is just confirming it. And remember, them impeding OL from getting the fourth cave is proof that group will stoop to anything, including stabbing a pacted ally in the back.
All is fair in war as you say but agreements require trust, so working with that team requires trust. Proof of their ability to be trusted needs to occur BEFORE TD walks blindly and idiotically into an agreement with them again.
So where does this leave us Jam? Well, I will gladly sit down with Arch to save this server but to do that I need/want/demand more than the assurance of someone who was in the alliance for 24hrs. I will need actions of substance, proof as it were, that they are capable of honouring the agreement made. If not, then it is them that have doomed the server.
So out of my entire alliance, the only trustworthy people are me and Gpig? Well that sure sounds like propaganda.
(But wait, GGN just called out Gpig for dishonorable conduct and keeps calling me a liar, so I guess that leaves no one.)
And the rest of what was highlighted, was that not propaganda and politics?
Again I take issue with the nonsense that we impeded OL from getting the fourth cave. What impeded them from getting the fourth cave was that TD, despite being “the number one alliance in Hermonassa,” couldn't organize themselves enough or send proper attacks to get the job done.
But if we did have a hand in it, then that speaks all the more to our ability to see into the future, since it was already obvious which way the taco winds were blowing.
.... More damning TD lies are uncovered by Archileaks. It's become abundantly clear that Nate was not acting independently, rather a valued part of the TD council. Let's not forget how sad they were to see him go.
No matter how they try to rewrite Grepo history, their poop smells.
@TD leadership - When you're caught with one hand in the cookie jar, denial makes you look really foolish.
I'm told this is a message straight from the TD forum - it's a bit of a read. Old cook is a right talker:
Michael Cook said:
The World of Wonders is four months away at most and as you all know getting there will dependent upon a few things.
First and foremost the world could be closed beforehand if the population of this world continues to decline. Our constant failure on the war and war of words has driven some out already, some are in VM and likely won't return while others are thinking of leaving, tired of the nonsense of Hermonassa.
As a great team we've put in a lot of time (and even money) to get to WW. So, I'd like to know how our team wants to proceed.
I'm entering into talks with Apoc (Archiamedes the honest) to determine the way forward. There are options for us here.
1) We could continue on as we are and have been doing. Being our own team and striving to achieve the crown on our own, however remote the chances. To do this we as a team will have to keep the server open by taking inactives, colonising and defending our team. This will keep the points climbing.
2) We could negotiate with Apoc to share in the victory, even though they are a superior alliance. This is where we agree beforehand how we build 3 and they build 3 and OL build 1. We'd also have to negotiate how we get there to stop players from leaving. Maybe not have multiple players attack one player or assigning weekly attack teams of 5 vs 5 or one on one to attack targets etc.
3) We decide to fight to not let Apoc win. Maybe it sounds odd given our current performance but they are our enemy and do we want to share anything with them? Are they a team worthy of that from a great team like our own?
4) Strive for a Super Alliance where we all work together to win and suckle off Apocs success till there is no more milk to feed off? While this may be the ideal, it also means working with them. Is that possible? And at what cost? The majority of them know we are the most untrustworthy players they've ever played against and likely ever will again.
This is a real tough one gang. We have some hard decisions in the days and weeks ahead and we need to dig deep to decide what we want to do together as team.
This world, and TD in particular, has been subjected to the worse kind of trash talk and pnp in the history of Grep. The lies and schemes cast upon TD are sadly all true. We've tried very hard to make out they were lies and everything was the fault of our old founder, Nate, a man no longer playing in this world and therefore not here to defend, smart eh!? The truth does, in the end, win out and the truth is that he was an integral part of our Council, acting with consent, sharing info and gave every regard to his fellow council members.
Our failing as leaders, combined with our constant scheming has singlehandedly driven some players out of this all by itself. We know the main instigators and perpetrators are myself, GGN and Red. As a Founder of TD I have lied to our team against some of the truths brought forward by APOC and appreciate the work of kingbeef but mostly, Generic Greek Name to do the same thing. But SC is honest and truthful in an attempt to achieve his ends. He and his fellows have shown that we can no longer pretend we have behaved with honour.
With all the above said, we need your opinions and thoughts but most of all the input from your hearts and minds. You've all put in a lot of time and work to get TD to where it is, the number one alliance in Hermonassa. So you matter, not just to me but most importantly to us, as an entire team. We are a whole. And while we don't always agree, we are like a family and resolve our stuff to become better. Right now we need you to think with your heads and speak from your hearts. Please have it. No opinion is wrong here.
And finally, for now, we also know this survey will be shared with our enemies. Spies, supposedly, are a part of this game. To the spy among us please know that people like you are a part of the reason this world could die and all you would be victorious in is being a traitor because people like you could never be a part of a team nor understand the concept of what it truly is.
you know what gets me about all this? Is how upset some folk are going to get over it, its obviously edited and not for propaganda but for a joke a laugh -its blatantly obvious that is the case.
But for some reason people come on here again and again acting all u[set.think about it when SC and GGn were taking things to Jon and ZT or taking things off the forum in zt and rubbing there faces in it , that was ok..now for some reason its all got very serious. Y'all need to lighten the hell u[p...IT MAY BE A WAR GAME BUT IT IS STILL A GAME!!!!!
In its continued effort to bring you unadulterated documents straight from the source and thereby uphold its reputation for the highest journalistic integrity, ArchiLeaks can confirm that the above document was indeed not the original.
However, as will be seen from the original which was posted to TD, the above document is the edited (that is to say, corrected) version, since the original is full of factual errors, false presumptions, scapegoating, and grotesque and slanderous character assassination attempts, as will be seen below.
ArchiLeaks appreciates the efforts of Michael Cook in his endeavour to keep server population levels up but is once again disappointed to see that he is engaging in PnP when he claims to be one who rises above it.
Michael Cook has written the following:
The World of Wonders is four months away at most and as you all know getting there will dependent upon a few things.
First and foremost the world could be closed beforehand if the population of this world continues to decline. The constant war and war of words has driven some out already, some are in VM and likely won't return while others are thinking of leaving, tired of the nonsense of Hermonassa.
As a great team we've put in a lot of time (and even money) to get to WW. So, I'd like to know how our team wants to proceed.
I'm entering into talks with Apoc (Archiamedes) to determine the way forward. There are options for us here.
1) We could continue on as we are and have been doing. Being our own team and striving to achieve the crown on our own. To do this we as a team will have to keep the server open by taking inactives, colonising and defending our team. This will keep the points climbing.
2) We could negotiate with Apoc to share in the victory, where we agree beforehand how we build 3 and they build 3 and OL build 1. We'd also have to negotiate how we get there to stop players from leaving. Maybe not have multiple players attack one player or assigning weekly attack teams of 5 vs 5 or one on one to attack targets etc.
3) We decide to fight to not let Apoc win. Maybe it sounds odd but they are our enemy and do we want to share anything with them? Are they a team worthy of that from a great team like our own?
4) Strive for a Super Alliance where we all work together to win? While this may be the ideal, it also means working with them. Is that possible? And at what cost? The majority of them are the most untrustworthy players we've ever played against and likely ever will again.
This is a real tough one gang. We have some hard decisions in the days and weeks ahead and we need to dig deep to decide what we want to do together as team.
This world, and TD in particular, has been subjected to the worse kind of trash talk and pnp in the history of Grep. The lies and schemes cast upon TD are unbelievable and baseless. Most of those lies are based upon the words and grand schemes of our former Founder, a man no longer playing in this world and therefore not here to defend. The truth does, in the end, win out and the truth is that one of the reasons he is no longer with us is his decisions to ignore Council, act independently of his alliance by not sharing info and to not give his regard to democracy.
This pnp/trash talk nonsense has singlehandedly driven some players out of this all by itself. We know the main instigator and perpetrator is Sir Cod. As a Founder of TD I have had to defend our team against some of those baseless accusations and appreciate the work of kingbeef but mostly, Generic Greek Name to do the same thing. But SC twists words, crops comms and outright lies in an attempt to achieve his end. He singlehandedly is why this server is dying and world population is decreasing in it.
With all the above said, we need your opinions and thoughts but most of all the input from your hearts and minds. You've all put in a lot of time and work to get TD to where it is, the number one alliance in Hermonassa. So you matter, not just to me but most importantly to us, as an entire team. We are a whole. And while we don't always agree, we are like a family and resolve our stuff to become better. Right now we need you to think with your heads and speak from your hearts. Please have it. No opinion is wrong here.
And finally, for now, we also know this survey will be shared with our enemies. Spies, supposedly, are a part of this game. To the spy among us please know that people like you are a part of the reason this world could die and all you would be victorious in is being a traitor because people like you could never be a part of a team nor understand the concept of what it truly is.
I mostly see facts in there, thought I will admit that it's probably a little bit of a stretch to say that SC is singlehandedly causing the server to close. I do believe he is one of the reasons, but there are others.
I'm glad you posted the real one, by the way. it was pretty easy to see that the first one was edited to be full of rubbish.
Firstly I'd like to thank Archileaks for bringing to light the original document. I think Dawna's comments are very distasteful, to recklessly bandy about peoples names as the reason players are quitting when there is no basis in fact. First you target Jam, now you're onto the next one, bitterness is not becoming in you my dear...
I'm shocked at the factually incorrect bombardment against my character. The hypocrisy is off the charts. To use Cooks own vernacular, It's exactly that kind of PnP trash talk that ruins the server and is causing people to leave. *start to cry like baby*
The condemnation of spies when not so long ago they proudly used them is amusing. Then to blame them for world closure, it's clear TD try to tar anything that works against them with that brush. I suppose next you'll be blaming ZT?
The continued "Nate scapegoating" is no shocker.
He singlehandedly is why this server is dying and world population is decreasing in it.
This is my favourite part. While it's inherent in the nature of the war game to weaken your enemy, the inescapable truth is their poor leadership is leading to their player depletion. Nevertheless, I thank them for giving me credit.
The silver lining in such a garbage document is Cooks commitment to talk with the righteous Archidiamedes.
I WOULD like to say that I'm not just throwing names around without reason. I suppose we just got told two different reasons why people are quitting. you say you heard Taco left because he was tired of dealing with TD; I was told he quit because some of our bigger players quit and ruined most of the fun for him. (and I was never pointing at Jam; he was one of three I mentioned as a whole, yes, but I don't think I ever said him, specifically) . and I WOULD say that your constant bashing of TD has most likely made some members at least want to quit just to get away from it.
but, I can see that you've made your mind up already. just your kind of person, I guess... I can write the word "mouse" and if you want to think I'm saying cat, you'll pick my sentences apart until you can read the word cat. so I'll just leave it at that.
Originally Posted by Ak42000
Ak42000 today at 01:02
Oh no please Mr. Turd Fish don't lightning bolt me again, what ever will I do, im so scared no of his royal Turdness
