AP.- Daily News

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
1) It is not ad hominem attack. It is simple the reality of having such a vast difference in size. I am rank 2/3 in the world, and you are ranked 323. This by itself makes us play and proceed the game differently. You have little idea of how to get to this point and to play with the demands of having 80+ cities.
Actually, it is a continuation of your personal attacks about my size making my opinion irrelevant. I may not have tonnes of cities, but I get the ideas of how to do so, and the ways to manage larger numbers of cities. It may make us play the game in slightly different ways in some scenarios (you have the option to rely on brute force rather than tactics, when you actually bother to fight), but it doesn't mean that my views on your leadership are invalid. I provided evidence about flaws in your leadership and their actions, and that evidence stands, no matter if I were ranked 1st or 1001st.


2) Yes, but the "Game" now has WW, and profoundly changes it. In my view, this is a good change as makes this war game more realistic. No war in history is purely militaristic affair. This is what so many people fail to understand in this forum.
This game is usually marketed as a military strategy game, not Sim City: Ancient Greece Edition. Combine that with the effort invested into the combat mechanics, and the original concept of the game, and I would say that the community are right in their beliefs that WWs are not the best endgame for Grepolis. Furthermore, Grepolis isn't meant to represent real life - if it was, I am sure we could all point out a lot of discrepancies between how the game mechanics work and how it would work in real life.

You are playing the game upside down. This is what you do not realize or understand. If you want to play this game well, then you need to start thinking about WW from day one.
This is the problem with WWs as an endgame mechanic. They are heavily opposed to military strategy, which is what this game is meant to be about. WWs encourage pacting, simming and recruiting, rather than proper wars. But because Inno won't come up with an endgame more suited to the rest of the game, and ignores any suggestions from the community on this topic, we are left with two choices: play in the intended spirit of the game, relying on military skill and strategy for success, or prepare for Wonders from day 1, by avoiding any sort of large or evenly-matched war.

3) This is your opinion and experience. However, Sniping is ineffective against good and experienced players and can be highly inefficient in terms of time management. Try to come to the core, and you will learn how your sniping will become useless.
Sniping works fine as a tactic against good or experienced players, so long as you are not purely restricted to it. It's only if you are permanently restricted to sniping that it becomes dangerous.

4) Once again. This is what you do not understand and you will do well for yourself by reading the Art of War by Tzung


"To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

If you want to win in Grepolis, you should try to obtain positions that later on will give you an advantage on the WW, and you should obtain them with the least amount of resources possible. This is it. Not fighting for the sake of fighting.

And now you are using The Art of War as an excuse for your poor BP. You claim to be an alliance of great fighters, yet their biggest player (yourself) sits here prattling excuses as to why it doesn't matter that his BP is appalling for his size.

5) This is your misguided misconception.
Actually, it is truth based upon experience. If you rely on others to do your fighting for you, you are going to be an easier target when isolated or alone. In many top alliances they kick players who don't pull their weight in terms of fighting.

6) Yes, it is called cost/benefit analysis and not blind and stupid indoctrination or brain washing. If you leaders are not doing their job properly and your teammates are not pulling their weight, you should not stick around due to "blind loyalty".
If Thermopylae suddenly had some players defect from them, we all know that you would instantly be on here calling them disloyal traitors. And human beings are never as simple as cost-benefit analysis machines. It's one of our crucial differences to current artificial intelligences - we have morality and personal values that are not mathematically quantifiable, such as loyalty. We are doing our job, but if someone is discontent and chooses to become a traitor rather than bringing their issue to us for us to help them, that is their fault, and shows a lack of morals on their behalf.

7) I do not agree with you. This game is about winning the crown. If you want to choose "respect from the others" and confuse "loyalty" with stupidly and foolishly sticking around people who are not doing things right, then by all means go ahead because I will always end up beating you.
The technical objective of a game is to win. So yes, you could say that the point of playing is to win. But in a community-driven game, where the prize for victory (a crown) is becoming ever more devalued by the people that achieve, and where you will have to play with or against many of these players again in the future, reputation is paramount. You might win the battle in terms of winning a crown on a particular server, but if you lose the respect of your fellow players because of your actions on that server, you will lose out in the long run.

Reputation means more than a crown these days, for a couple of reasons:
- So many people have a crown now, that it is no longer an indication of skill. There's a player with a crown that I have been in the same team as once, and fought against twice. When we were on the same team, he showed very little teamwork or communication, and the two times I have come up against him, I have definitely come out on top. And this is a player with 2 crowns and a separate victor's award.
- If you have a bad reputation, a crown won't make up for that. If you have no crown, a good reputation can still get you into that same alliance.

If your way of winning against someone is to hide behind better fighters and sim, then you aren't the one winning against anyone. You are simply baggage for your teammates to carry all the way up to WWs.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Actually, it is a continuation of your personal attacks about my size making my opinion irrelevant. I may not have tonnes of cities, but I get the ideas of how to do so, and the ways to manage larger numbers of cities. It may make us play the game in slightly different ways in some scenarios (you have the option to rely on brute force rather than tactics, when you actually bother to fight), but it doesn't mean that my views on your leadership are invalid. I provided evidence about flaws in your leadership and their actions, and that evidence stands, no matter if I were ranked 1st or 1001st.



This game is usually marketed as a military strategy game, not Sim City: Ancient Greece Edition. Combine that with the effort invested into the combat mechanics, and the original concept of the game, and I would say that the community are right in their beliefs that WWs are not the best endgame for Grepolis. Furthermore, Grepolis isn't meant to represent real life - if it was, I am sure we could all point out a lot of discrepancies between how the game mechanics work and how it would work in real life.



This is the problem with WWs as an endgame mechanic. They are heavily opposed to military strategy, which is what this game is meant to be about. WWs encourage pacting, simming and recruiting, rather than proper wars. But because Inno won't come up with an endgame more suited to the rest of the game, and ignores any suggestions from the community on this topic, we are left with two choices: play in the intended spirit of the game, relying on military skill and strategy for success, or prepare for Wonders from day 1, by avoiding any sort of large or evenly-matched war.



Sniping works fine as a tactic against good or experienced players, so long as you are not purely restricted to it. It's only if you are permanently restricted to sniping that it becomes dangerous.


And now you are using The Art of War as an excuse for your poor BP. You claim to be an alliance of great fighters, yet their biggest player (yourself) sits here prattling excuses as to why it doesn't matter that his BP is appalling for his size.



Actually, it is truth based upon experience. If you rely on others to do your fighting for you, you are going to be an easier target when isolated or alone. In many top alliances they kick players who don't pull their weight in terms of fighting.


If Thermopylae suddenly had some players defect from them, we all know that you would instantly be on here calling them disloyal traitors. And human beings are never as simple as cost-benefit analysis machines. It's one of our crucial differences to current artificial intelligences - we have morality and personal values that are not mathematically quantifiable, such as loyalty. We are doing our job, but if someone is discontent and chooses to become a traitor rather than bringing their issue to us for us to help them, that is their fault, and shows a lack of morals on their behalf.


The technical objective of a game is to win. So yes, you could say that the point of playing is to win. But in a community-driven game, where the prize for victory (a crown) is becoming ever more devalued by the people that achieve, and where you will have to play with or against many of these players again in the future, reputation is paramount. You might win the battle in terms of winning a crown on a particular server, but if you lose the respect of your fellow players because of your actions on that server, you will lose out in the long run.

Reputation means more than a crown these days, for a couple of reasons:
- So many people have a crown now, that it is no longer an indication of skill. There's a player with a crown that I have been in the same team as once, and fought against twice. When we were on the same team, he showed very little teamwork or communication, and the two times I have come up against him, I have definitely come out on top. And this is a player with 2 crowns and a separate victor's award.
- If you have a bad reputation, a crown won't make up for that. If you have no crown, a good reputation can still get you into that same alliance.

If your way of winning against someone is to hide behind better fighters and sim, then you aren't the one winning against anyone. You are simply baggage for your teammates to carry all the way up to WWs.
Kal, Just repeating yourself does not mean that you are making progress in convincing me. Your views are congruent with those of a small player.
I would recommend that you try to grow and then you will realize that blindly going for battles does not make you win in the WW.

Go ahead try to have a fantastic reputation. Good for you. I am just glad that you are not my teammate.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Kal, Just repeating yourself does not mean that you are making progress in convincing me. Your views are congruent with those of a small player.
I would recommend that you try to grow and then you will realize that blindly going for battles does not make you win in the WW.
I am sure that I won't be the only one to see the irony in this. You continually peddle the same lies and accusations, and when proven false you resort to the same personal attacks and excuses. You completely ignore or avoid evidence that proves you are wrong, and hope that if you don't mention it, you are somehow still right.

Go ahead try to have a fantastic reputation. Good for you.
Well, my actions on this server have definitely gained me a good reputation in places, so I have achieved my aim for this world already. :)

I am just glad that you are not my teammate.
You would not believe how relieved I am to hear that. I really didn't like the prospect of carrying you around while you spout rubbish all over the externals. :)
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Kal,
I know that I am right and you are wrong because your strategy has left you with a small number of cities. Many of them around 3000 points. Your strategy is foolish and ineffective, the problem that we have is that you are deluding yourself in thinking that you are more relevant than what you are capable of.

It is just empty rhetoric. I will start to give more credibility to your point of view when you become a relevant player.

I rather have a bad reputation and win than having a good reputation and lose. The game is about winning.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Oh, goody. Personal attacks again. You think that because you are a large player, your word is law. Here's some real news: it isn't, and an arrogant attitude like that will not get you anywhere in this community.

My small number of cities is due to several factors:
- I actually had the courage to fight a tough war, rather than run, jump ship, or hide behind teammates. I have been on the frontlines of a war all the way from the start of the server to the formation of the coalition.
- I don't use gold for city slots.
- I started later.

As to my small cities: they were colonisations with the aim of shoring up the 75/76 border against HEROES, and creating support cities within the Atlantis core oceans to help cities in our contested oceans. Rather than growing large on constant internals and inactives like yourself, I chose to do something that benefitted the team, rather than myself.

If I was irrelevant, I wouldn't have had an OP run on me by one of the top alliances on the server, back in about January. ;) Also, as a leader, I am never irrelevant to events. You must know this, because you continually try to criticise me as a part of coalition leadership. If I was irrelevant, all of your accusations against me and my fellow leaders would mean absolutely nothing.

And that last line says a lot about you - you care for your own personal gain, rather than about your teammates and the rest of the community that is what makes this game what it is.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
Excuses..excuses...excuses.
You are noob when it comes to resource management and army creation.
I care about my alliance and I winning.
If you want to win the award of Miss Congeniality go for it.
We are crushing you and we will win this world and you know it and this is why you are bitter.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Excuses..excuses...excuses.
This is exactly what everyone thinks about you when you attempt to justify your poor BP, some of the dodgier actions of your alliance, or your attempts at covering things up when we prove that the vast majority of your accusations are lies.

You are noob when it comes to resource management and army creation.
Sure, I am a noob at army creation, yet I have managed to fight better for my size than you have for yours. That makes loads of sense...

I care about my alliance and I winning.
You don't care about cities that your teammates have lost, and you don't care that your continual ranting on these forums only damages the public reputation of your alliance.

We are crushing you and we will win this world and you know it and this is why you are bitter.
Twisting the truth a little? Some of your team are great fighters, no doubt. But there are other members of your team who hide behind the fighters, feeding on inactives, internals and handovers.

If I am bitter about anything, it's the way you use these forums: you spam PnPs, you lie, you twist the truth, you are offensive, and you think that your word is law. The combination of those things has made this world's external forum worse than dead, it has made it toxic.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
This is exactly what everyone thinks about you when you attempt to justify your poor BP, some of the dodgier actions of your alliance, or your attempts at covering things up when we prove that the vast majority of your accusations are lies.



Sure, I am a noob at army creation, yet I have managed to fight better for my size than you have for yours. That makes loads of sense...


You don't care about cities that your teammates have lost, and you don't care that your continual ranting on these forums only damages the public reputation of your alliance.


Twisting the truth a little? Some of your team are great fighters, no doubt. But there are other members of your team who hide behind the fighters, feeding on inactives, internals and handovers.

If I am bitter about anything, it's the way you use these forums: you spam PnPs, you lie, you twist the truth, you are offensive, and you think that your word is law. The combination of those things has made this world's external forum worse than dead, it has made it toxic.
1)
Nice try, but the forums were dead for a month without a single post. At least we have traffic now.
2)
Some cities are worth defending others not.
3)
We are a well rounded alliance. We have a bit of everything: defenders, attackers, fighters, organizers, builders, sweepers (those who take inactive), snipers, etc. This is why we are winning and even defeating a SIX alliances at once. Are you guys ashamed of this?
4)
I am glad that you are bitter.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Nice try, but the forums were dead for a month without a single post. At least we have traffic now.
I never said that they weren't dead. In fact, I was admitting that they were. But given the way that you "brought them to life" with your false accusations, your blatant lies, your personal attacks, etc, etc, there are a fair few people who would much rather they were dead than the toxic breeding ground of lies that you have made them into.


Some cities are worth defending others not.
And you have the most biased way of categorising that, which can be summed up in the following way:
- We will call cities relevant if we manage to hold them.
- We will call cities irrelevant if we lose them to the enemy.

I will add that you are being two-faced. You classify our conquests against you as being irrelevant. As such, basically your entire frontline is irrelevant. Yet you brag about taking cities in those same areas. If they are irrelevant areas, you cannot brag about taking cities in those areas (given that you class all of our frontline conquests as irrelevant, you are therefore not allowed to count any frontline conquest against us as relevant). If they are relevant and you want to brag about taking cities there, you cannot say that any cities lost there are irrelevant.

We are a well rounded alliance. We have a bit of everything: defenders, attackers, fighters, organizers, builders, sweepers (those who take inactive), snipers, etc. This is why we are winning and even defeating a SIX alliances at once. Are you guys ashamed of this?
A good alliance shouldn't have people whose roles are just to eat inactives and sim. Especially not a good fighting alliance, which is what you always say Thermopylae are.

Again with the two-faced attitude. Every time I make a point that you don't agree with, you say that I am irrelevant, and call my alliance irrelevant too. If you want to call the Atlantis alliances "irrelevant", then you are not allowed to say that you are fighting 6 alliances at once (you really aren't defeating us). If you admit that we count as alliances in terms of fighting, then you are admitting that we are relevant.

I am glad that you are bitter.
You are glad that I am bitter that you are ruining these forums? You mean you enjoy the fact that you are ruining these forums for the community? And you call me a "piece of work".

Also, there is something that not many people on the forums may know, which might make a bit of a puncture in Futbol's overinflated image. He can dish out trash talk (and much more), but he really can't take it.

The following screenshot is from a PM chain between Futbol and a member of the coalition, initiated by Futbol. Why Futbol did not contact me personally is as yet unknown.
Screenshot_986.png

Futbol is accusing me of "being really hurtful" and asking me to tone it down. Perhaps this would be a reasonable request, if it were not for Futbol's actions on these externals. I won't go into the whole list (believe me, it is long), but I will pick some good examples of what Futbol has done.

- Accused Virdian of being a liar for telling Thermopylae members that Jimbobicus was offering information to the enemy. Futbol knew for a fact that Virdian was telling the truth, as he took quotations from the PM trail between Jimbobicus and Virdian, and twisted them to make it look like he was telling the truth.
- Accused the entire coalition of fear-mongering to the moderators.
- Accused myself and my alliance of cowardice in not coming to fight him when he made a personal challenge against me from 2 oceans away. When I made a similar challenge to him as a joke, he instantly found excuses to avoid doing taking up the challenge.
- Regularly attempted to intimidate me with personal attacks on my statistics (my BP/points ranking ratio is actually much better than his), location (calling me irrelevant because I am not right next to him), my values (calling me a tyrant) and my personality (calling me "a piece of work" after acting aggressively towards me, including use of profanity).
- Attempted to treat all forum users as idiots if they don't agree with him. (Denying the existence of Mayhem Incarnate, despite it being common knowledge, lying about BP stats that were proven wrong by someone not even playing on the server, etc).
- Accused me of having irrelevant and incorrect opinions because he has more cities than me.
- Regularly made hypocritical or two-faced accusations. (Accused REPO of backstabbing Thermopylae for supposedly attacking during a peacetime, despite the fact that the REPO attacks were in retaliation to Thermo's own breach of the peace. Accused REPO of betraying Thermopylae by breaking away from them, despite the fact that he said it was a mutually-agreed split only days beforehand.)
- Said that Atlantis Mallorean and Heavenly Myrmidons were just waiting to be enslaved by Thermopylae. Highly offensive term to use, and ironic given his claims about Thermopylae being the forces of freedom and liberty.
- Accused multiple players of "fake news" when we provided evidence that undermined his accusations towards us.

We, the members of the coalition, have responded by providing evidence to prove that Futbol's accusations are false, and to make evidenced statements about the nature of various events in this server and actions taken by Thermopylae or its individual members. And now we are being accused of "being really hurtful" by the very player who came onto these forums in order to repeatedly insult the coalition...
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
I did send an olive branch as a gesture of good faith to start a new dynamic in the server. You have rejected it even when I asked to the people in your team to keep confidential, but I can see that you guys are not trustworthy and then take a good gesture and twist it and make it public even when you promise to keep it private.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Actually, you did no such thing.

- You contact Ares to complain about my behaviour on the forums, despite the fact that it pales in comparison to your own behaviour, and that my actions were merely in response to your own.

- You actually asked that he did not twist it for the forums. That is precisely what Ares agreed to.
Screenshot_987.png

- Despite the fact that I made no such promise, I have not twisted your words. I provided a screenshot rather than a transcript, so that I could not be accused of twisting your words in any way.

- I made no promises to you about anything. If you wanted me to promise something, perhaps you should have contacted me personally, rather than attempting to manipulate me via another player.

- Ares did not make the PM public. He forwarded it to me, because you were asking him to pass a message to me. Also, you posted a similar message here on the external forums before contacting Ares, so you had already revealed your feelings here. If you had not intended for those feelings to be seen by the masses, you would not have posted them here.

If you truly intended it to be an olive branch as a gesture of good faith, explain the following things:
- Why you said I was being "a jerk"?
- Why, if your main quarrel was with me, did you not contact me personally?
- Why you again accused our leadership of plotting to pass Thermo false information via a fake leak? You therefore accused our leadership of supporting multi-accounting, as whoever is leaking the information must have at least 2 accounts: 1 in the coalition to get hold of the information, and at least 1 outside of the coalition in order to pass on the information without revealing their true identity.
- Why you act as if I am the villain and the only one at fault? This entire situation was kicked off by your spamming of PnPs onto this forum. Those PnPs were designed to insult the coalition, especially its leaders. You have since continued with aggressive and insulting behaviour, and yet you act as if you are innocent and I am an unprovoked menace.

I note that you still avoid admitting or even mentioning any of my statements about your own behaviour.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
You can double check with Ares. The approach was in good faith not to complain but to reconcille. Anyway, now it is water under the bridge. Opportunity gone by.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
You have an interesting way of attempting to reconcile with people:
- Contact Ares in order to try and get him to make me stop criticising your team, rather than contacting me directly.
- Call me a jerk behind my back, in the same message trail.
- Complain that I am "being really hurtful", when your entire propaganda campaign has revolved around directing insults and false accusations at coalition leaders.
- No attempt to admit or apologise for your own actions, which were much more severe, and initially unprovoked.

That's not an attempt at reconciliation.
 

FutbolTango

Banned
Banned
AP. Heavy fighting in the north as new Thermo cities are in the middle of ww islands of REPO and HEROES. It is unclear the final draw of the lines in territory but intensive battles are been fought as we report this.