Diplomacy?

goofball343

Guest
I am not sure what others will think, but I thought this was somewhat interesting.


In the beginning, I shared an island with jncarriere. He (or she) didn't belong to any alliance so I farmed him/her several times. Then, s/he joined the Acadian Empire and my former alliance signed a NAP with them (despite my protests). My attacks stopped.

I joined One For All. I noticed that One For All didn't have any specific relationship with this alliance BUT we did take some of their cities. So, last week, I spied jncarriere. He/she had very few land units but had 150 biremes.

Since I shared an island with them, I simply avoided the biremes and took out all the land units.

Then, yesterday, I began whittling down the biremes. A short time later, I received the following message:

Aeron Stark on 8/1/10 at 11:07 PM
Is there any specific reason that u keep attacking a member of my alliance?

Aeron
This player is a diplomat for the Acadian Empire. He has one city (under 600 points). To insure that I was not stepping on anyone's toes in my alliance (One For All), I composed the following response:

goofball343 on 8/1/10 at 11:10 PM
Your alliance and my alliance have no diplomatic connections - as far as I know.

In fact, several members of my alliance have conquered cities that belonged to your alliance.

My specific reason is simple - battle points.
This lead to the following response:

Aeron Stark today at 1:37 AM
as far as i know, only a few of ur members have conquered out cities in the past....there r other cities on ur island....why my member....cant u attack someone else?
Oh, now I understand -

Only a few of my alliance members have conquered cities from them. I suppose that I am not one of those few.

Additionally, we only conquered in the past. Obviously, we won't conquer in the future. The past will never repeat itself.

After receiving this message, I really didn't want to attack anyone else. I really wanted to attack this guy. Nevertheless, to avoid any possible problems, I decided to see what higher ups in my alliance thought. I also took the opportunity to point out how he had made, what I believe to be, some diplomatic errors:

goofball343 today at 4:38 AM
I am waiting for official word from my alliance.

But, this is the best you offer - a please don't attack him.

I need battle points. Your guy has 150 biremes in his harbor. These offer me two things that no other city in my ocean does - the ability to accumulate lots of BP AND the ability to get rid of some of my light ships.

These are enormous advantages. Nevertheless, I will await official word from my alliance. If they do not wish future attacks, I will cease my attacks.
Surprisingly, the diplomat composed this response:

Aeron Stark today at 4:41 AM
lol yes all i can offer is a please dont attack....ur alliance is millions of points more powerful than mine...what did u want?... a fake threat of war and some tough talk that i couldnt possibly follow up?....i like to defend my members as best i can...but im not so stupid as to provoke war from One For All...from an alliance stand point i might as well dissolve my alliance if i was gunna do that....what did u expect...what would u do?
This guy has no imagination - in his view, there are only two options.

He doesn't offer anything and gives me no reason to discontinue the attacks - no resources, no battle points, no information. He just asks me to 'please stop attacking.'

I stay the course:

goofball343 today at 4:48 AM
We will see what they say. I am forwarding our discussions to the powers that be at One For All.
I forwarded all my discussions - including the last one.

Big surprise on the outcome - I can keep attacking.

goofball343 today at 5:34 AM
I am permitted to continue my attacks.
That's when I receive this:

Aeron Stark today at 4:14 PM
Then continue....and u didnt answer my questions...u could at least do that.
I don't know what this means (does anyone else see questions) but compose a response anyway:

goofball343 today at 5:54 PM
What questions?

If you mean about threatening us, I agree threats in this game are useless. Nevertheless, you don't offer resources or battle points or anything else. You only ask please don't attack. That's it. That isn't an offer; it is simply a request.
The end.
 

Jacko0

Guest
Always difficult to answer mails like that without sounding arrogant or elitist.

Atleast we was respectful, not

plz plz plz stop atk my member
 

jlgarton90

Guest
i think the question that he wanted an answer was when he said what would you do as in if you where in his positition which is understandable lol i had a similar situation when i attacked a member of pain which is a an alliance of 200 members but small points and they tried to make me stop but i continued anyway.i find it so funny when they say "why are you attacking my member" the next time someone asks me that i will just say "i want to see what his city looks like close up"
 

sparkz104

Guest
he is asking what would you do in that situation?
he is part of a small alliance that isnt anywhere as near as strong as yours and is asking that you stop farming they're member in a nice way because they arent able to do anything other than that.
and ive noticed that alot about ofa since they came into the top spot. (and even though that player is a farm and i would so the same) but ever since they became 1st despite losing cities from other top ten alliances they still like to go for really small alliances because they cant put up a good fight against them and they are left to lie down and take it. and they think because they are first that they can act however they want and they have made quite a few enimies and lost a lot of friends
 

goofball343

Guest
he is asking what would you do in that situation?
he is part of a small alliance that isnt anywhere as near as strong as yours and is asking that you stop farming they're member in a nice way because they arent able to do anything other than that.
and ive noticed that alot about ofa since they came into the top spot. (and even though that player is a farm and i would so the same) but ever since they became 1st despite losing cities from other top ten alliances they still like to go for really small alliances because they cant put up a good fight against them and they are left to lie down and take it. and they think because they are first that they can act however they want and they have made quite a few enimies and lost a lot of friends

Two points here:

POINT 1 - When I initially thought about posting this, I had a feeling that it would end up turning into a 'let's flame OFA' thread.

Surprisingly, or not surprisingly, I am not going to respond with - OFA is the greatest alliance of all time - 'nuff said - but, rather, I will actually try to address this issue.

Please remember that OFA is massive - this is both a benefit and liability.

When I left a small alliance to join OFA, it was a little like leaving a mom 'n pop store to go to work for WalMart. OFA is really, really big. It requires an extraordinary amount of maintainence and exists nearly everywhere.

In many oceans, members cannot simply attack everyone. Doing so would cause problems for others in Oceans far away. Therefore, certain rules exist (that I will not discuss here). These rules permit members primarily to attack - surprise - small alliances. If these rules didn't exist OFA would be at war with everyone everywhere.

Thus, to outsiders, it appears that OFA is a bully that focuses on small alliances. In many oceans, this is true. Simply because OFA members in one ocean cannot force members in other oceans into unmanageable wars.


POINT 2 - I guess I was correct in my response. The diplomat was asking me what diplomacy would have been appropriate: What other offers he could make?

Let me suggest any of the following:

Resources - some form of tribute

Battle Points - This player would permit me to attack him for BP OR he could attack me with ineffectual attacks

Information - spying; information in other oceans; something along those lines

OR,

Something else.


He offered nothing, however. He could only see two responses - war or peace.
 

Cronus

Guest
aye the tribute thing is an option. the problem is though where do you stop? not picking on OFA just using it as an example....

he offers you tribute.. something from that player. Word gets around OFA and they start hammering other cities and demanding tribute. With something like that the player is no longer playing for themselves but for you or your alliance mates. In my mind he had the just of it... its war or nothing.

In the end they are weak and as such need trimming. You were attacking by yourself and as such they should have been able to fend you off with that one guy.. or get help from one of his mates nearby.

You were trying to farm.. not conquer. as such you were totally in the right (though you would be in the right anyway to conquer.. this is a war game after all). You were way nicer than I would have been. Though thats probably why Heph and Khite dont deal with me anymore but with our diplomat. I am a tad abrubt in my wording though I mean no offense by it. *shrug*
 

Trevalyn

Guest
Why should this be restricted to only OFA. ANy alliance in the top 12 that farms a small alliance. ANy competent alliance that has a member farm another person is in this situation.

I find it sick where people only bash OFA for being bullies, Im not in OFA and I wouldnt mind getting the tag for being a jerk.

Bullying and coercion is what every alliance does. Small alliances declare war on OFA then do they honestly notice it? If I were that guy I would sell my soul and find (make) secrets for OFA just to lead them into my fantasy land of tall tales and many psalms
 

Cronus

Guest
where did I bash OFA? I just used them as an example. One guy had a hate on now its a defend the OFA thread. Sad.
 

aergid

Guest
Why should this be restricted to only OFA. ANy alliance in the top 12 that farms a small alliance. ANy competent alliance that has a member farm another person is in this situation.

I find it sick where people only bash OFA for being bullies, Im not in OFA and I wouldnt mind getting the tag for being a jerk.

Bullying and coercion is what every alliance does. Small alliances declare war on OFA then do they honestly notice it? If I were that guy I would sell my soul and find (make) secrets for OFA just to lead them into my fantasy land of tall tales and many psalms
I agree:

I dont think Remorce was having a go tbh, but am i wrong in thinking this is a war game and yes bigger alliances will bully smaller ones for bp and cities...

If you look at the top 10 Alliances, which ones have rules stating their members must not farm players who are in smaller alliances....

Answers on a postcard please......

I could name Alliances who have other alliances also in the top 10 as their farms in certain oceans :p
 

Trevalyn

Guest
I just find it irritating. I enjoy seeing OFA getting flamed but I find it pathetic that a lot of the people who come and flame OFA do so because they are part of the smaller (everyone at the moment is smaller) alliance. They bully everyone.

I enjoy seeing OFA getting bashed for incompetence and any failings they may have but beating the little guy is all in a days work. If you want to you can if you dont then dont.
 

Serraven

Guest
Assistance

I am a member of a very small aliance, reading this thread has been both a help and a hindrance.

If bullied by a larger alliance, what is the best way to deal with it? Tribute, Spy, or is it feasable to form a protectorate of alot of smaller alliances and go to war?
 

Trevalyn

Guest
The best way is to go about business as usual. Unless you make an issue of it only one or two of their members will bother you. If they attack then just dodge and doploy your militia. Build up walls and storehouses. Give them nothing and make it as expensive for them as possible.

When you start slanging words back at them then generaly more people wade in.
Are you still under beginner prot? or how advanced are you in the world?
 

Serraven

Guest
Im not in beginner protection anymore, I advanced my senate too far. Thanks for the advice, I have a feeling that my alliance will take a lot of hassle. I was unaware of the disbandment of the Bloody Ravens before I named my Alliance, and some might think that we're a sect of them.
 

blueblueblue

Guest
Well if your in a smaller alliance then you might as well send your troops off somewhere build up you buildings so that you have no resources and enlist militia That will make the larger alliance make it costly and focus on other targets(SW)