Is it okay to judge someone by their grammar?

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DeletedUser

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I mean, when recruiting Staff, you'd have to take their grammar, spelling and punctuation into consideration. You'd much sooner choose an applicant who shows good knowledge of the English language, than an applicant who "typs lyk dis". I'm not talking about nitty gritty grammar Nazi's, who pick at any sentence until a fault is found, I'm more leaning towards those who know the language better than they write. Anyone can make a spelling mistake, so I'm not criticizing the tiny flaws.

If it's okay to judge someone based on their application, does that mean it's fair to judge people in day to day life?

My opinion is yes, although you should be open to changes in that opinion, as you get to know the person better.

What do you think?

/inb4 someone finds a spelling mistake or something in this post. >.>
 

DeletedUser

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Half of the mods we have here can't even read.
Haha, I like turtles too! So what happened to him?



But seriously, ofcourse it's okay to judge someone. After all they are going to work for you, you will pick the one that YOU like most/find most capable.To be fair, applications are made to be able to judge someone.
 

DeletedUser4013

Guest
I find that the standard of the English language today is atrocious. When I was in elementary and middle school (about 20 years ago) I was required to learn not only spelling and grammar, but also sentence structure, and vocabulary. Now kids barely learn half of that, and on top of that, people are beginning to use 'txt speak' more and more often in everyday use. I find it not only appalling that this is happening, but also extremely lazy on the part of the person who is butchering a language as diverse and rich as English. In any situation, I feel that I would without a doubt pick a person for a job who has a better command of English than someone who doesn't. Because if you cannot convey what you mean to say, then you cannot be understood by others. And it is precisely that reason why I feel that you can and should judge someone on their language skills.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I can see why you brought this up :)
uhh, I guess Roesh is a semi-noob, but he has decent grammar so he's good in my books.

I think that having decent grammar is a good yardstick to judge someone's communication skills. I don't think you can judge a person as a whole by their grammar- which is not what you implied in your Op, as some people may not have had English as their mother tongue and learned the language quite late in their life, and such. But for people who have been brought up surrounded by English speaking individuals in an English background, I think that their grammar reflects a little of their personality and also the dedication and effort they would put into doing anything. Just what I feel.
 
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DeletedUser8396

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I'm not talking about nitty gritty grammar Nazi's, who pick at any sentence until a fault is found.
*cough* Lane *cough* :p


If it's okay to judge someone based on their application, does that mean it's fair to judge people in day to day life?
Well, I believe so if their grammar is horrible but it shouldn't be blatantly said and appear rude. You never get a point across when it is shadowed by rude and ignorant comments.

Overall, I agree mostly with Tyrion. The requirement for current spelling and grammar is degrading society's 'professionalism'. Now, the only 'young people' (under 18) that have decent grammar and will actually use it, are the kids where they have had challenges set before them by either the parents or advanced curriculum.

So I would say yes. Judge someone on their grammar, but dont let it be the 'end all, be all' of your opinion about them.
 

DeletedUser26213

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If it's okay to judge someone based on their application, does that mean it's fair to judge people in day to day life?

I think it is ok to judge someone on grammar in their application because it is crucial that you have good communications, but in daily life, there is more to people than just their understanding of the English language
 

DeletedUser

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I think it is ok to judge someone on grammar in their application because it is crucial that you have good communications, but in daily life, there is more to people than just their understanding of the English language

Very true. Exactly what I was trying to convey.
 

Aicy

Strategos
I disagree with everyone here except Jarpenguin. Philosophically we know that you should only judge people by what's on the inside: personality, intelligence and ethics. Grammar falls under none of those things.

Although grammar can be a reflection of stupidity it is not very often. Somewhat like how appearance is not a reflection of what's on the inside, thus we teach children to not judge people by it. Nearly every single one of my science teachers has poor grammar and spelling, but a good understanding of science.

I mean, when recruiting Staff, you'd have to take their grammar, spelling and punctuation into consideration. You'd much sooner choose an applicant who shows good knowledge of the English language, than an applicant who "typs lyk dis".

First of all, it depends on the job. If they are a newspaper editor certainly so. That is one of the skills that the job requires, such as a tennis player being physically fit. If they are a scientist applying to work for the large hadron collider I think their understanding of physics is thousands of times more important than their spelling, punctuation and grammar.

However if it is clear that their spelling, punctuation and grammar are bad as a result of the applicant not caring enough then I think that is quite an accurate reflection of their attitude towards the job. But remember in this case you the reason you are not giving them the interview is not because their grammar is bad but because it is clear that they are not willing to put the effort in to get the job, let alone be successful at it.

I find that the standard of the English language today is atrocious. When I was in elementary and middle school (about 20 years ago) I was required to learn not only spelling and grammar, but also sentence structure, and vocabulary. Now kids barely learn half of that, and on top of that, people are beginning to use 'txt speak' more and more often in everyday use.

The illiteracy rate in 1902 in the United Kingdom was 99.0%. Now it is 99.9%. You say that you learnt "not only spelling and grammar, but also sentence structure, and vocabulary" and that "Now kids barely learn half of that" when I can tell you from first hand experience, as someone who just finished secondary school that we are taught all of that regularly from the age of like 10 to now, where I am 16. And as for text speak I think what you are saying is completely wrong, that has been decreasing greatly in the last year or two due to the fact that it is no longer necessary as most text messages now have a waaaaaaaaaayyy longer character limit than they did not long ago.

I feel that I would without a doubt pick a person for a job who has a better command of English than someone who doesn't. Because if you cannot convey what you mean to say, then you cannot be understood by others. And it is precisely that reason why I feel that you can and should judge someone on their language skills.

What you are talking about here is literacy and the ability to speak English as opposed to knowing all the rules of spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure. My grandmother never, ever uses any punctuation at all in her letters. Not a sign of a comma or a period. Despite that I have never, ever had any struggle with understanding what she is trying to communicate. peepl can write fonetically like dis and u can still understand wat they r trying 2 say very ezily
 
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DeletedUser

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My argument: Grammar Nazis

If we spend all our life yapping about Grammar, we'll end up like that Nazi.

My point is, it's what the person means that is important, not the faults in their manner of communicating their thoughts.
 
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Aicy

Strategos
^That's all fine and dandy, but what if it's so bad that it's near unreadable?

Then that's pretty bad and they should put in the effort to learn to write well if one of their prioritys is to communicate with English speaking people. However that does not mean you should judge them for it.

You know, typically those people who wander the streets in gangs and sleep with someone else each day... (Not sure why we'd communicate with them but for example's sake)

See here you're not even judging them for their grammar! You are judging them for "wandering the streets" which sounds awfully unproductive, and being "in gangs" which are typically violent.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I'm saying a bit of fail grammar is fine here and there.

As long as the person isn't incapable of writing an understandable English sentence, it is usually fine.

If it isn't understandable then that is one hell of an extreme.
 

Varun

Strategos
Yeah. I agree that for modding a person should be judged on the basis of grammar. Being a mod is no joke. It shows authority. How would it look, if a mod with no grammar says,

You shouldn't negative comment on someone, instead of
You shouldn't comment negatively on someone. Eh?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You shouldn't be able to "judge" anybody by anything for anything. Unless you are a..... well.....um......Judge. Just sayin...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Of course! Yes! Yes! Yes! & YES!

Well I think you got the point I was trying to make. Anyways, I think grammar and the usage of the English language whether it be writing, or talking is very important. A simple comma could turn a nice reminder into a blood bath. It all depends on how well the person conveys their message(s).

By the way, I didn't read all the messages so if I said something over I'm sorry! :p lol
 

DeletedUser

Guest
What about non-native speakers? Perfect English isn't necessary for most jobs, would you turn him down because English is not his first language. (I'm talking about someone who knows the basics, not someone equivalent to a 4-year old.)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
What about non-native speakers? Perfect English isn't necessary for most jobs, would you turn him down because English is not his first language. (I'm talking about someone who knows the basics, not someone equivalent to a 4-year old.)

If I were the one deciding on which job to give who.

I would decide solely on the job requirements. If for example it was a job as a salesman, where communication was key. I would turn him down.

However if the job was as a factory worker, where little communication would be necessary. I would hire him.

If the job requires a high level of communication with clients, then perfect English is a requirement. However if the job requires a low level of communication then English skills become less important.
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
if i were the one deciding on which job to give who.

I would decide solely on the job requirements. If for example it was a job as a salesman, where communication was key. I would turn him down.

However if the job was as a factory worker, where little communication would be necessary. I would hire him.

If the job requires a high level of communication with clients, then perfect english is a requirement. However if the job requires a low level of communication then english skills become less important.

this^
 

DeletedUser

Guest
What about non-native speakers? Perfect English isn't necessary for most jobs, would you turn him down because English is not his first language. (I'm talking about someone who knows the basics, not someone equivalent to a 4-year old.)

I guess I would have to side with WAVE on this one. It would solely depend on their position within the company.
 
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