Love, Hope or Fear?

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DeletedUser18366

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Hate is spawning....
No that was a daft comment but on the actual thread starter, that was an amazing piece. However, true love when it is present is stronger than hate, and hate always has a condition and something to drive it. Love is unconditional and so can overcome hate.
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
Hate is spawning....
No that was a daft comment but on the actual thread starter, that was an amazing piece. However, true love when it is present is stronger than hate, and hate always has a condition and something to drive it. Love is unconditional and so can overcome hate.

I completely agree that true love smacks the brutal bonkers out of any other emotion. It really does. In a one-on-one emtion battle, true love wins hand down any way you turn it...it just does (because of the very reason you mentioned, unconditionals).

However, my point was no one-on-one. Hate has a vastly larger base, and true hate, although a smaller base than general hate, has a MUCH larger base than true love. The vastness of the hate crowd crumbles the true love to the ground.

Not only that, but it is infinitely easier to instill true hate in someone as opposed to true love. Not only that, but true love, in order to combat true hate, the true love must be focused on the one who hates. That is even more rare, and I dare say non-existent in the human race (at least currently, and disregarding religious arguments).

Hate is the loudest of all the competition. It screams both vocally and by action. It applies universally, and is one of the easiest to instill. Love, hope and fear cannot even begin to compare its strength. The only combatant to hate is love. As love is too rare and sparsed out, it cannot possibly stand a chance against the hate-lustful crowd.
 

DeletedUser33530

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Adding to what you said love can not be instilled as hate can be
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
What have you been talking to the forum's oracles (I hope they still callef oracles) to figure out what I'm gonna say before I say it?
EDIT: the wiki mods aren't orcales anymore curse you richie
 
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DeletedUser37948

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obsession is by far the scariest and powerfull expression of emotion while it can be fuelled by love or hate it is the depth of the emotion expressed that gives the power

love and hate are like black and white they are shades of grey its the depth of the colour that give the power and that can be any shade of grey!
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
obsession is by far the scariest and powerfull expression of emotion while it can be fuelled by love or hate it is the depth of the emotion expressed that gives the power

love and hate are like black and white they are shades of grey its the depth of the colour that give the power and that can be any shade of grey!

Obsession is a product of an emotion...not an emotion in and of itself. It is not primary because there must be a reason for the obsession, which ties into love hope, fear, hate, etc. somewhere down the line.
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
my point is, this is the debate flaw, while each primary emotion has a definition, it is the depth of the emotion, inspired in an individual that gives it power
obsession is just a good example of the power given to an emotion by an individual

ultimately emotions are the expresions of individuals and and so the power is directly linked to the power of the individual
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
my point is, this is the debate flaw, while each primary emotion has a definition, it is the depth of the emotion, inspired in an individual that gives it power
obsession is just a good example of the power given to an emotion by an individual

ultimately emotions are the expresions of individuals and and so the power is directly linked to the power of the individual

Precisely. And what I am arguing that, in the truest form of each emotion, hate wins out. True love is too rare to compete with the droves of true hate. The depth of the two are near equal (with true love slightly winning in a one on one), but when the numbers of true hate and the easiness of instilling true hate as opposed to true love, true hate wins total. Not only that, but true love cannot win against true hate unless that love is directed toward the hater.

What I mean by true form is that it embodies the full, or almost full, aspects of the emotion (and granting the power from it). The true form of the emotion and power it gives does not change from subject to subject, as they are universal. True love may require dying for soeone. That death for someone else can be carried out equally by anyone with true love, and the effects are the same. The power granted is definitely not subjective.

With non-true forms, maybe the power is more subjective as the scales have yet to max out on potential, but I am not arguing that.

What I am arguing is, that in the event two emotions, maxed out to their full potential, hate ends up winning as the grand champion. Obsession is not an emotion, simply a motivation and product of emotion.
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
Precisely. And what I am arguing that, in the truest form of each emotion, hate wins out. True love is too rare to compete with the droves of true hate. The depth of the two are near equal (with true love slightly winning in a one on one), but when the numbers of true hate and the easiness of instilling true hate as opposed to true love, true hate wins total. Not only that, but true love cannot win against true hate unless that love is directed toward the hater.

What I mean by true form is that it embodies the full, or almost full, aspects of the emotion (and granting the power from it). The true form of the emotion and power it gives does not change from subject to subject, as they are universal. True love may require dying for soeone. That death for someone else can be carried out equally by anyone with true love, and the effects are the same. The power granted is definitely not subjective.

With non-true forms, maybe the power is more subjective as the scales have yet to max out on potential, but I am not arguing that.

What I am arguing is, that in the event two emotions, maxed out to their full potential, hate ends up winning as the grand champion. Obsession is not an emotion, simply a motivation and product of emotion.

sorry but I think you have stuff twisted around emotions don't directly give power they have no power on there own, only when combined with a person is power formed.
this symbiotic relationship dictates that potential of the person combined with the emotion felt equals power expressed.

if Obama is feeling the love and expresses that then he may have more potential power for good than myself from hate.

personaly in this dumbed down age we live in I see lots of people who think negative emotions and negative responces are all powerfull its a popular misconception portrayed extensively by the media.

emotions are expresions of a person my love combined with my drive and wits may well be enough to negate the effects of many a hatefull foe, my love of my family may drive me to war to protect them and motivate me beyond compare

there is an old saying that a man fighting for his family is worth ten fighting for pay

your argument for the greatness of negativity in emotion is flawed all emotions are only as potent as the person they envelope and even in two opposite and equals, the levels of drive are base on instinct , intellect and prowes.

Edit : id also like to add that when I read your cleaver and compeling arguments I note the use of a lot of asumtions

True love is too rare to compete with the droves of true hate , this is but one flawed asumtion

on the flip side one could argue that vertualy every child born has the unconditional love of two parents and that is a big number

still this is a flawed statment as well

I feel the error in your argument is and forgive me, based on a lack of comprehension of the true depth of all emotions involved and there differing styles of power expression.

my advise is don't believe the hype
 
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DeletedUser8396

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sorry but I think you have stuff twisted around emotions don't directly give power they have no power on there own, only when combined with a person is power formed.
this symbiotic relationship dictates that potential of the person combined with the emotion felt equals power expressed.

if Obama is feeling the love and expresses that then he may have more potential power for good than myself from hate.

personaly in this dumbed down age we live in I see lots of people who think negative emotions and negative responces are all powerfull its a popular misconception portrayed extensively by the media.

emotions are expresions of a person my love combined with my drive and wits may well be enough to negate the effects of many a hatefull foe, my love of my family may drive me to war to protect them and motivate me beyond compare

there is an old saying that a man fighting for his family is worth ten fighting for pay

your argument for the greatness of negativity in emotion is flawed all emotions are only as potent as the person they envelope and even in two opposite and equals, the levels of drive are base on instinct , intellect and prowes.

Edit : id also like to add that when I read your cleaver and compeling arguments I note the use of a lot of asumtions

True love is too rare to compete with the droves of true hate , this is but one flawed asumtion

on the flip side one could argue that vertualy every child born has the unconditional love of two parents and that is a big number

still this is a flawed statment as well

I feel the error in your argument is and forgive me, based on a lack of comprehension of the true depth of all emotions involved and there differing styles of power expression.

my advise is don't believe the hype

You misunderstand my argument oh so much. Emotions in and of themselves are powerless, I agree. Emotions without a person is powerless, I agree. However, you are forgetting two primary things:

1. These emotions are in their truest state, thus carrying all benefits and disbenefits.
2. Each emotion, while they may share some powerful qualities, each have their distinct and unique qualities. In this case, they both have different qualities effecting drive, motivation and the power behind each.

An emotion without a person, although powerless, still embodies these potential qualities and potential powers, but simply cannot be acted upon because they lack something to effect. This effect then translates on the person when one is provided and creates drive, motivation, and (depending on how complete the emotion is) the power. Since we are dealing with the truest form, we must then assume that the power is at max. This maximum power of the emotion makes the drive and motivation just as strong (creating the emotions true drive). As this emotion is at max, the definitions apply universally. This also makes the emotions capable for analysis as far as which one has more motivational power and which one has the overall 'most powerful' title.

You say emotions and drive act independently of each other. Then what gives you the drive? Self desire would be the logical conclusion, then I ask what gives the self-desire. That then is answered by a specific emotion. Thus, drive comes from emotion and do not act independently at all.

I then compared all emotions in true form, and narrowed it down to hate due to numbers and easiness to instill. I concede that in one on one, true love wins (only if focused toward the one who hates, however, can it win against true hate one on one). However, on a global scale (which humanity is set in, so we must consider), hate wins out. I don't wish to re-argue what is in the original post. You may re-read it if you wish.

And of course I made assumptions. However, these assumptions are not all that hard to believe, as they make sense.

True love being too rare - Common sense, but if you need an explanation: For love to exist from one to another, the person that has love must deny himself. This denial is necessary for true love, as a requisite is to die for that person should that choice arise. Denial of onese;f fights every rational, irrational, instinctual, and just intelligent thing to do. The barriers are extremely hard to overcome, and most never truly do.

The 'child' argument is invalid. There was a study (I currently cannot find it) conducted on the brain and the conclusion was that love is not fully comprehended until the 20's. I see loads and drives of children and adults who disown their parents and refuse to associate with them, sometimes for arbitrary reasons. I've resented my father for years now (however my reason is not arbitrary, but lets not venture there). A child's love is not unconditional.

Assumptions must be made in almost any argument, and especially this one.
 

DeletedUser37948

Guest
while id love to continue this I have a premade to organise ready for tomorrow so due to time issues ill have to leave this topic alone


one final thought I think is relivent, love and hate manifest themselves in completely differing ways there real strengths are in differing fields. Maybe you feel the way you do because you have not considerd the full spectrum of how loves force is manifest.
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
while id love to continue this I have a premade to organise ready for tomorrow so due to time issues ill have to leave this topic alone


one final thought I think is relivent, love and hate manifest themselves in completely differing ways there real strengths are in differing fields. Maybe you feel the way you do because you have not considerd the full spectrum of how loves force is manifest.

The amount of ways love manifests is irrelevant. What I am saying, and what I believe most will agree upon, the love I described is extremely rare. Whereas legitimate hate is extremely abundant in relation to true love.

It's a numbers game mate.
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
Love is patient and kind: love is not jealous or boastful: it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way: it is not irritable or resentful: it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.... So faith, hope and love abide, these three, but the greatest of these is love.
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
Love is patient and kind: love is not jealous or boastful: it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way: it is not irritable or resentful: it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.... So faith, hope and love abide, these three, but the greatest of these is love.

Quoting my buddy Paul, I see?
 

DeletedUser33530

Guest
Darn I didn't think you would figure out who I quoted it from. :(
 

DeletedUser8396

Guest
Darn I didn't think you would figure out who I quoted it from. :(

I'm a Christian mate...and Im a smart one. You honestly don't think I considered Paul when writing this? I excluded God from the emotional; strength as no human is God (unless you count Jesus, then we get into Apologetics where I will destroy you all :p).

Paul's definition defines true love. It doesn't change the outcome, as the outcome was based purely on numbers. Not to mention, true love can only beat hate if the love is directed at the hater.
 
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