Sceeth V Dragon Heads appears Imminent

sceeth

Phrourach
Since messages to diplomats can be ignored, and players may later be told by their leaders that warnings never existed...

The following is my justification for an imminent declaration of war against Phoenix of Carthage. It also applies to Ascension, though a different diplomatic status has bought them additional time. All dated claims can be verified through grepostats.

Oct 9th : WolfPack forms. Quickly climbs to a peak of 17 active members.
Oct 13th : WolfPack captures Phalanx city. I declare a state of war to protect my allies.
Oct 19th : I capture first WolfPack city. This will remain their only loss for some time.

Personal impression: They’re hitting me with everything they can muster, as expected. Despite being outgunned in ocean 37 approximately 12-1, I’m holding all cities. Perhaps their reputation is undeserved. Their timing and coordination is almost perfect, even suspiciously so, but they show no intuitive ability to predict my movements and devise appropriate counters. A suicidal stand for my principles now seems capable of ultimate success.

Nov 26th: My next capture of a WolfPack city.
Jan 9th: My 6th capture. By this point inactivity is taking its toll on WolfPack
Jan 11th: Tipped off that PoC has invited members of WolfPack. I warn their diplomat of potential consequences. My message is read, but no reply is given.
Jan15-16th: My last capture of a WolfPack city. Member was booted during the siege. PoC takes 3 WolfPack members into their alliance.

Battle reports should be unnecessary, with the record of conquests publicly available, but I hold none to standards I can not meet myself. Thus, a token battle report dated within one week before the refugee exodus, and delivered within one week after.

[report]9ec18237ce0803ae70f89ab19c8573e0[/report]

Further evidence, such as history of wolfpack players, shows WolfPack is really just the incarnation of the southern sect of Virtus Phoenix. Grepostats can confirm VP was an enemy of Phalanx. Messages within the Dragon Heads forums (to which I regretfully cannot access) should confirm that Zole, a leader of WolfPack, was always an enemy of Phalanx, attempting to turn Dragon Heads against them.

Thus, WolfPack members are not just refugees, but fugitives from justice, aggressors who started this war through multiple incursions, and now flee.

Of the 17 original members, 13 have yet to go grey, but only 5 still appear active. PoC has 3 and Ascension has 2. One by one, I will chase and harry them to the grey, using all tactics at my disposal, both might of arms and psychological maneuvers. Those who harbor them will also become my targets. I can’t beat PoC and Ascension, but I can cost you far more than these refugees can provide for you.

PoC has 48 hours to kick their 3 before I declare war. Ascension has 72 hours to either kick their 2, or agree to the terms discussed elsewhere.

* Terms given to Ascension would also allow PoC to keep their 3
 

-Achilles-

<a href="http://forum.en.grepolis.com/showthread.p
You seem to have had a rush of blood to the head sceeth, calm down this just appears to me as hasty. Perhaps you aren't quite in a state of right mind?

From my understanding (which is limited) PoC have been longtime allies with Wolfpack and each has contributed greatly to the alliance. Now Wolfpack is ending as an alliance from my vantage point PoC are repaying favours to a few close friends in the alliance.

I ask you sceeth if your best friend on this game got into a little trouble you would come to there aid? Of course you would, that make critising PoC a stupid and irrational thing to do and anyone reading this thread should question your state of mind in grepo and whether you are the best person to listen too on these matters.
 

Z Grade

Guest
Lessee. Many things I can say, but t'is better to simply ask questions and make few statements.

1. Of the 5 currently active players, have you taken any of their cities? I would look it up, but it'd be problematic to find out exactly who.
2. You're not getting all of your terms to Ascension accepted. More details to come Sunday.
3. You're one, versus 266, probably less due to location, but still. What damage do you really hope to do?
 

Valerio

Phrourach
This does seem to be a little out of proportion and I can't really see any particular cause for the level of vitriol you have Sceeth.

Firstly, you don't need to worry about our members understanding the situation, this has been a matter of open discussion within our forum, viewable to all.

Secondly, while many in our alliance hold you in good regard, the members of Wolfpack who have joined us have been friends and allies of some of our southern players for almost as long as they've been around and of the alliance as a whole for nearly as long. As an alliance, we will always look after our friends and there seems nothing in the current circumstances that would suggest it should be otherwise.

Thirdly, i'd also query your claim as to their refugee status. The alliance Wolfpack seems to have demised due to inactivity not external threats, as you allude to yourself in the original post. As such any remaining active members are within their rights to seek alternate homes. The three that have joined us certainly don't appear to be under any particular threat (they've taken 321 DBP between them in the month visable on grepostats and the answer to Z Grade's question is 0).

As a final question, i wonder why you seem to be taking this particular conflict so personally. Certainly, PoC have never been on particularly great terms with Phalanx and have taken numerous cities over time, yet we have seemingly not incurred your wrath. Also those ex-Phalanx members within our ranks seem to bear no grudges towards these players and were happy enough to accept them into the alliance. Likewise the Wolfpack members express no ill will towards yourself and as such this appears very one-sided.

We have no wish to become embroiled in conflict over this but we will not be abandoning friends we have fought alongside for so long.
 

NivMizzet13

Guest
Well said Val. I appologize Sceeth, that I have not been able to respond to your emails, I have been having difficulty with connection, but thats inconsequential. More than once the idea of POC vs Phalanx came up, and each time the idea was put aside.

We respect you for your ability to play and your strength. We do not wish to try your might any more than you may wish to try our coordination and unity. We simply wish to have our friends in PoC.
 

sceeth

Phrourach
haste? vitriol? Yall see things that aren't there. Now that the endgame is in sight, I might as well break it to you that I don't think in a neurotypical fashion, and I haven't been playing "to win" by any of the common standards.

Sorry if I sounded like I was opening a thread for debate. This was more of the fyi type post. Publicly providing moral justification for switching PoC to red on the map, as required by SILK's constitution. It serves double duty for switching Ascension to red, as I don't expect to get an adequate counteroffer from Asc in the next few hours. Luckily for everyone involved, I'm really lazy. So in practice, this just means I'll go back to quaking shaunusmaximus on a daily basis until either the game ends or he quits and I move to another ex-wolfpack.
 

NivMizzet13

Guest
Lol, Sceeth...you ARE SILK, your points comprise nearly all of it. So its really self justification:p
 

sceeth

Phrourach
Those who break the rules only because there are none capable of stopping them, fall into two camps. There are the cowards who believe the laws unjust, but will not take the risk to oppose them. And there are the morally bankrupt, who believe in the law, but violate it anyway for personal gain. Since I singlehandedly wrote the SILK constitution, one can hardly lump me with those that disagree with the law. Which only leaves the latter.

Moral bankruptcy. Wow. Sobering to know my worthy opponents think so little of me. Such ideas don't grow in a vacuum. Clearly dispersions have been cast upon me by lips that would be heard and believed. I'd send the agent of such ideas 30 pieces of silver were I to know where to address said fortune.
 

NivMizzet13

Guest
If you read our posts carefully Sceeth, you can see that we have nothing but respect for you. You might also find that we're not lumping you with people who disagree with the laws. I was merely pointing out that you're following laws that you wrote yourself, which some light hearted individuals might find funny.
 

sceeth

Phrourach
When you said I comprise nearly all of SILK, the implication is that previously mentioned rules don't apply to me through virtue of my size. Hence, the implication that I am only someone who follows rules until it becomes expedient to break them, regardless of whether I agree the rules are just.

See it now?

I of course realized immediately that implication was not your intent. But you gave me an excuse to liken myself to Julius or Jesus, depending on which reference was closest to the surface at the moment, and who can resist a setup like that?
 

-Achilles-

<a href="http://forum.en.grepolis.com/showthread.p
And what gives you the the right to decide the 'rules' for everyone else? Big-ego complex.
 

BlackPaladin333

Guest
Can everyone just calm down... This arguement is going no where and there are so many cross channels of arguement it is hard to keep up, at least for a simpleton such as myself. If you wish to continue this 'discussion' then why not just state the fact plain an simple in one post and have done.

Of what I can understand, PoC took in players who were 'refugees' from Wolfpack, but I would say that if it was one of my own friends who was being attacked I would not hesitate to bring him into an alliance, no matter the consequence.

P.S. I may have just gone on a complete tangent and spouted random gibberish with no relevance to the current conversation :p
 

sceeth

Phrourach
Are you talking to me Achilles? If so, I'm confused. I never decided which rules everyone else should follow. As I've stated previously, this first post was required OF ME, by the rules I wrote into SILK's constitution to apply TO ME. I could have simply turned PoC and Ascension red without saying a word to anyone. But that would be violating my own code, so I created this thread.

It was pointed out that I'm the bulk of SILK, and I could ignore those rules if I wanted. That implies I'm a certain type of person though, the sort of person who ignores his own principles just because it is expedient to do so. Not long ago, them's would be fightin' words.

Of course I knew that implication was unintentional. I wasn't really insulted, and was just playing around. I even said so. Which is why the following post about rules and egos is so confusing to me.
 

Hardkill

Guest
I believe the only rules that apply to this game are not alliance constitutions but in game rules. That being said there are some players in game who go back on their word but that is not breaking any in game rules. A few little guys jump on the bandwagon of their leaders who are screwed up and thus wars start. I have never believed in to follow blindly in game or in real life.
 

JTin46

Strategos
In-game rules are one thing, keeping order within a group and maintaining fair play and human decency is another . . .
 

Roxt

Guest
Sceeth

I've always respected your ideals as your player size has earned you those rights. But I think in this case you are a bit overboard/off. What would you expect PoC to do when friends call or pact alliances disband. PoC has no major standing with you personally if I am speaking correctly (I may be wrong). They do however have a long and storied history of friendship with those wolfpack members. It was inevitability the only outcome if 1 or more of wolf pack members quit then they would move to either PoC or Ascension as those are there 2 closests longtime friends. Though wolfpack had no standing with Ascension after they split from EH it was still implied by Ascension that they were our friends even if we bang heads from time to time. Although I am sure many members of both alliances respect the hell out of you do you really think that either alliance would drop multiple members that would better there own alliance for 1 player of an un-pacted alliance. While I do agree this is a flawed ideal, but this game is about your alliance and its glory. Currently Silk is looking for its own glory, correct!!! Which I think you have obtained by taking on wolfpack by yourself. But from PoC and Ascension view the only Glory to be had is that of Dragon Heads and its members (alliances). Lately that Glory has been spread and shared with alliances that fight DS. Such as TFL who have put up a great front over there in their waters. If Circumstances were different and wars were shared and or conflicts shared I think the weight of your alliances wishes would carry more. But ultimately by posting this tread on the grepo forum you made it impossible for either alliance to ever consider your request further. Both alliances would not give into such demands of any alliances. Making open threats with ultimatums in here would never have solved anything. It should have been more of an open war declaration only when it finally came to that. In no way do I want that with you sceeth, but I am just pointing out that what you were looking to get out of this was never gonna happen especially after you posted this.

First time poster just trying to share my thoughts.
 

sceeth

Phrourach
I thought my prior explanations were more clear than this, but somehow the interpretations just keep getting further and further off base. Since I seem to have a pathological inability to quit anything, I'm going to try to explain, YET AGAIN. And if I fail to clarify with this attempt, I'll just have to beam the concepts directly into your brains and bypass this crude written language entirely.

I was never going to get what I wanted, even BEFORE I posted this, Roxt. One side had told me as much. The other hadn't told me anything. If I thought otherwise, I would have titled this differently. And I'm idealistic, not idiotic. You ask what I expect PoC to do in a situation like this. I expect them to ignore me. (I expected everything to go exactly as it did, except for this unfathomable projection of views and motives that I do not in fact possess) If the balance of power were different, I might have some leverage, but the truth is that the DH have the endgame wrapped up, and I can't change that. This thread IS NOT and NEVER WAS about diplomacy in the sense that yall seem to think.

This was a good faith gesture on my part, towards the members of PoC and Ascension. I have only fought in self defense, and I don't intend to change that now. Without an explanation of WHY I switched both alliances to red, any act I may take would mark me as an aggressor. Even the bolts and quakes I have continued to level at shaunusmaximus would mark me thus. Had PoC or Ascension attacked me directly, this would not have been required. I'd have marked you red, done nothing for months, and tried to slip a CS into one of your cities about 30 hours before the game ended. But taking in refugees is a slightly different matter. I have to demonstrate that those alleged refugees have transgressed against me first, and that you know this, so that by taking them into your alliance you are absorbing their initiation of this conflict.

Will I now act on this state of war? Probably only to the extent that I am already doing so, bolts and quakes to ex-wolfpack members. As I said, I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to throw my troops away pointlessly. But I COULD, and I would be within my personal code of non-aggression.

The point of the post is that you KNOW that I've marked you red, and you know WHY. It was going to happen anyway. It might not even matter. But I had the decency to tell you, and for THAT I'm being maligned and my emotional state called into question.
 

Roxt

Guest
I read the above. Just thought your delivery (full explanation of why) was not fully explanined, hence so many posts by others. By no means am I calling myself a skilled writer as my above post was chicken scratch and so are my in game messages (some are barley understandable). Mainly do to the fact that I dont care nor take the time or put that much effort into a message.

You shouldn't be so quick to get your feathers ruffled Sceeth, its not healthy. Your better than that and should know that these kinds of things happen all the time. Why make such a big deal and mark friendly alliances RED over 4 players.

As to your other comments. Bolts in Quakes in the numbers your alliance can supply are hardly anything to worry to any player of moderate size. But thank you for clearing up that you have now marked us as RED. I also don't see this going anywhere as most of our members in Ascension our friends with you sceeth (in your area). So I see it as we will just support the guys you attack and no one will every take any cities.

This all just seems so pointless to me. That's why I posted the above sceeth.