Inactive Topic Sea Storm spell functionality not working as described

Taishan

Guest
Greetings,

Proposal
I've found out the hard way that the Sea Storm spell has a tremendous chance of killing a Colony Ship if it is part of the attacking force, because the spell actually calculates chances of which ship to destroy based on Farm Spaces, and not as described based on Naval units. I'd propose to change the way this spell works, or changing the description of the spell to better reflect the way it actually works.

Reason
The Sea Storm description is:
Poseidon rises and beats the ships with furious waves. It is not a good day for seafarers. Destroys 10-30% of the enemy's naval units (can only be used on an incoming attack).

The description of the Sea Storm spell is not correct, it destroys 10-30% of the enemy's naval farm Spaces, while the description says 10-30% of naval units. This is a problem because the Colony Ship has by far the most population and thus has an extraordinary chance of getting destroyed by this spell.

This has been confirmed by a Sr. Moderator:
[2013-03-12 20:44:0]
Hello Taishan,


You are correct that the spell destroys 10-30% of troops based on population. I am unable to give any explanations why it works this way since only the developers know. I do agree that the wording could be made clearer.


Even though the CS was destroyed the attack will continue at the slow pace since travel time is not recalculated when a spell is cast.


Sincerely,


Tanuki7
Senior Moderator
Details
I am no mathematician so if anyone can confirm/improve on the calculations please do!

Example
5 light ships + 4 Slow Transports + 1 Colony Ship = 10 naval units = 248 Farm Spaces (of these 69% are 'part' of the CS)

If the spell would have worked as described based on Units:
The spell has a chance of 10-30% of destroying a ship, including the CS.​

If the spell works based on total available Farm Spaces:
248 total Farm Spaces of which ~69% are of the Colony Ship (CS). This means that the CS has a a chance of 69% of getting destroyed (there will always at least be 1 kill because of the 10% minimum).​

If the spell works based in individual available Farm Spaces:
248 total Farm Spaces of which 25 (10%) to 74 (30%) individual Farm Spaces will be (randomly ?) picked to be destroyed, until the total selected amount of 'to be destroyed' farm spaces has been reached. The chance to have one of the aforementioned 25-74 individual Farm Spaces to 'fall' on one of the 170 Farm Spaces of the CS increases to almost a certainty.​

The spell is currently not fair, or at the least not working as described. A fix could be to base it on units, or change the description.

EDIT: Note that while I have no knowledge about this, I can imagine the same 'mis-calculation' occurs with the land based 'Zeus' Rage' (e.g. Chariots have more chance than Slingers, and mythical units even more).

Balance/Abuse Prevention
N/A

Kind regards, Taishan
 
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Johanco

Guest
If described so then I say yes as the spell description is lying
 

DeletedUser26631

Guest
if this is the case then the "Tornado" spell will have to be changed too since they are basically the same and most likely go by the same math, but this is a very small issue that many people wont notice so if this passes or fails i wont mind
 

DeletedUser31161

Guest
no. for the reason it gives to much advantage to the attacker
 

Taishan

Guest
no. for the reason it gives to much advantage to the attacker
Just curious (I fully respect your opinion!), don't you mean that it gives to much advantage to the defender since it is a very high chance to kill the CS?

Also, if you mean it gives an advantage to the attacker, how do you think about editing the text to better reflect the spell?
 

The Mad Monarch

Guest
I agree. I have had my CS killed by a Sea Storm. It is aggravating, very much so. They should definetly chnage the wording to make it true to its wording.
 

izmen

Guest
Example
5 light ships + 4 Slow Transports + 1 Colony Ship = 10 naval units = 248 Farm Spaces (of these 69% are 'part' of the CS)
The problem is the way you're sending attacks, not the effects of the spell. With 50 LS and 90-ish fast transports the CS is 170/1120 = 15% of the naval farm spaces. I've never (yet!) had a CS destroyed by sea storm. I've never managed to destroy one with sea storm either. It's really a non-issue.
 

Mr Muay-Thai

Phrourach
The problem is the way you're sending attacks, not the effects of the spell. With 50 LS and 90-ish fast transports the CS is 170/1120 = 15% of the naval farm spaces. I've never (yet!) had a CS destroyed by sea storm. I've never managed to destroy one with sea storm either. It's really a non-issue.
yeah i'm in the same situation....i send 70+LS with CS and a decent ground force too. Never lost a CS to sea storm or killed one with it...
 

Taishan

Guest
i say no to this, if you dont protect your own cs with spell, its your fault
While I agree, I respectfully note that is not the issue that has been put up here. That is about the description of the spell not matching reality.

You can "Sea Storm" an enemy attack?
I'm unsure what to answer here.

In respons to those to which it never happened.

I have killed CS by SS twice, and lost a CS once. In my attack (which was brought to the attention of the mod as posted), I lost 2 ships of 98 total, of which 1 was the CS. Since this was 2% of the naval units, it let me to research it and eventually post my findings here. It should have at least killed ~10 naval units, and at most ~30 naval units. Not 2.

Grepolis counts farm spaces, either in 'bulk' (in which case the chances decline when adding more total ships, but the chance is still at leat 17 times bigger for your CS to get killed than a random LS) or 'individual' farm spaces, in which case the chances for the CS to be killed decreases slightly as well but stay huge.

You and the other poster have been lucky.

Regards, Taishan
 
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Surabaya Jenny

Phrourach
i say no to this, if you dont protect your own cs with spell, its your fault
In Hero Worlds, the attacker's protection spell can be "purified" (=removed) by the defender, after that the defender can cast Sea Storm on the attacking forces and still kill the attacking CS.

But I agree with ArShark, in warrior worlds it would be extremely stupid not to protect a CS attack by spell.
 

barcium

Guest
Again, this would give a huge advantage to the attacker. Not going to happen. I think the current balance is fine honestly.
 

WAVEBREAKER

Guest
Hahaha, Taishan I must congratulate you on your first actual idea posted in this Forum, and a great format/layout.

On the idea itself I fully agree, either this idea should be implemented or a different wording of the description should be undertaken.

+Rep for the layout/idea.

Again, this would give a huge advantage to the attacker. Not going to happen. I think the current balance is fine honestly.
The issue at hand isn't about balance, it's about wording.

Also I'm fairly sure the ability to SeaStorm an incoming CS shouldn't be taken as an advantage to a defender, as 90% of attackers will add a spell to their CS attack....
 

DeletedUser14492

Guest
I would say absolutely no way to this idea. One of the funniest and most satisfying experiences in Grepolis is casting a sea storm on your enemies foolishly unprotected CS attack, and taking out the CS, particularly if you would otherwise have lost the city :)

I think the description, while slightly missleading in terms of the actual maths involved, is fine.

As others have commented, I think the balance is ok.
 

mark.ellzey

Guest
You should always put a spell on your colony ship attack. If you lose a colony ship, it's your own fault. That's noobish to not protect yourself.