Passed World Wonder Modification

[DeletedUser]

I mentioned this idea while discussing another. I figured I might as well flesh it out and post it. I didn't see this suggested before but I didn't look really intensively.


Proposal:
The purpose of this proposal is bring war back to the grepolis endgame by modifying the criteria for an alliance to win the world


Reason:
The current way to win the world involves sending countless resources to build four structures as fast as you can. It currently shows who can sim the best, but not necessarily who is the best overall.


Details:
The current system would be the same at first. There is a race to build four/seven wonders. After this stage is complete. That alliance must successfully hold all four/seven wonders at level 10 for say three months. If the alliance fails. The timer ends. If the alliance is able to get the wonder back to level 10, the timer starts again at the beginning. It would be easy for a large alliance with many bad, but active players to win, since the only factor is who can send resources the fastest.


Visual Aids:
N/A


Balance/Abuse Prevention:
We would just need to discuss how longthe wonders should be held for.

 

[DeletedUser]

With the proposed system it would still be equally possible for a large alliance of active players with little skill to win. Holding the wonders for a set period of time would be about who can push for completion and then turtle their cities the most. Sure, for the other alliances it would be about conquering the current wonder holders, but for the alliance holding the wonders it would be about defence and nothing more..

I am all for alterations to the end-game scenario, but this doesn't seem like it would really achieve the desired change.

 

[DeletedUser18132]

Plus, other people from other worlds already won and quit.

 

[DeletedUser]

Plus, other people from other worlds already won and quit.

I imagine that any significant changes at this point would presumably only be included in newly released worlds, rather than updated into current worlds, given that some worlds have already 'ended'.

 

[DeletedUser]

With the proposed system it would still be equally possible for a large alliance of active players with little skill to win. Holding the wonders for a set period of time would be about who can push for completion and then turtle their cities the most. Sure, for the other alliances it would be about conquering the current wonder holders, but for the alliance holding the wonders it would be about defence and nothing more..

I am all for alterations to the end-game scenario, but this doesn't seem like it would really achieve the desired change.

I get what you mean. But it would still show that the alliance deserved the win more than the current system.

What might be another modification is include something like Culture Points but only gained through bp. Individual players could decide to "donate" their victory parades to the wonder. These would be considered like a resource you would need to level the wonder up. Of course one problem with this idea is attacking alliance mates just to gain bp for the wonder. I'll try to think of a way to fix that exploit.

Plus, other people from other worlds already won and quit.

This would only affect worlds without a winner, or worlds created after implementation. I don't think thats a decision made in the idea though.

 

[DeletedUser]

I get what you mean. But it would still show that the alliance deserved the win more than the current system.

What might be another modification is include something like Culture Points but only gained through bp. Individual players could decide to "donate" their victory parades to the wonder. These would be considered like a resource you would need to level the wonder up. Of course one problem with this idea is attacking alliance mates just to gain bp for the wonder. I'll try to think of a way to fix that exploit.

Going back to the idea of defending a wonder for a period of time, and just spitballing ideas, but what about some sort of NPC attacks against player-held wonders? Similar to the World Wonder system on Travian, if you've ever played it. When a Wonder reaches level 10, the cities on that island could be sporadically attacked by waves of NPC attacks, of increasing strength. With several wonders at level 10, there would be many cities potentially under attack at any one time, and this could increase the action for an alliance that has reached level 10 wonders..

The combination of NPC attacks and attacks from opposing alliances would be a good test of an alliance's ability to defend their cities.

 

[DeletedUser]

Going back to the idea of defending a wonder for a period of time, and just spitballing ideas, but what about some sort of NPC attacks against player-held wonders? Similar to the World Wonder system on Travian, if you've ever played it. When a Wonder reaches level 10, the cities on that island could be sporadically attacked by waves of NPC attacks, of increasing strength. With several wonders at level 10, there would be many cities potentially under attack at any one time, and this could increase the action for an alliance that has reached level 10 wonders..

The combination of NPC attacks and attacks from opposing alliances would be a good test of an alliance's ability to defend their cities.

As in most games that are essentially PvP. I extremely dislike the idea of random NPCs doing things. I like knowing there is a person behind every name and attack. I also don't like the idea of an alliance winning just because of luck that the NPCs did or didn't attack certain cities at certain times.

 

[DeletedUser]

As in most games that are essentially PvP. I extremely dislike the idea of random NPCs doing things. I like knowing there is a person behind every name and attack. I also don't like the idea of an alliance winning just because of luck that the NPCs did or didn't attack certain cities at certain times.

But, given the fact that most World Wonder cities have caves filled higher than.. I don't know.. something very high, the same 'luck of the draw' element is involved for attacks by players. Offline time is the only thing that truly comes into play.. but that too is iffy because of how easily offline times can change, or a person can check their account at the wrong time, or an attack launched wrong sets off a tripwire, etc..

I wasn't suggesting that NPC attacks replaced player attacks.. just that NPC attacks added an extra 'threat level' to otherwise peaceful world wonder building.

Either way, I'm just spitballing not suggesting anything solid.


What about some way to give an attacker an advantage when going against World Wonder cities? To encourage more conquest attempts against active World Wonder cities, without the attacker being completely overwhelmed by a stacked defence, wall and tower.

 

[DeletedUser]

I like this idea alot, Bringing back the factor of fighting in grepolis. Too show who the actually skilled players are

 

[DeletedUser]

A good proposal, technically you cannot cover all bases in terms of determining who has the most skill, but this will at least make it more difficult for those who are at the forefront of building wonders.

 

[DeletedUser]

What about some way to give an attacker an advantage when going against World Wonder cities? To encourage more conquest attempts against active World Wonder cities, without the attacker being completely overwhelmed by a stacked defence, wall and tower.

I've been thinking about this one. I haven't really been able to come up with much, other than some kind of percentage increase to the attack value of the units attacking a city on the wonder island.

 

[DeletedUser]

I've been thinking about this one. I haven't really been able to come up with much, other than some kind of percentage increase to the attack value of the units attacking a city on the wonder island.

That would probably be difficult, because it would alter an attack's power based on where it's heading.. what about some sort of minor decrease in the defensive bonuses given to troops in cities on a World Wonder island? Or a slight adjustment to the bonuses from a City Wall in those cities?

 

[DeletedUser]

this idea has potential . . . and i would love to see some validation in terms of skill rather than simming

moved to developments

please continue to collaborate on this idea

 

[DeletedUser]

That would probably be difficult, because it would alter an attack's power based on where it's heading.. what about some sort of minor decrease in the defensive bonuses given to troops in cities on a World Wonder island? Or a slight adjustment to the bonuses from a City Wall in those cities?

To me, that goes along the same lines of the attack bonus. It would still have to know what the targeted city is. Although really, either an attack buff or defense debuff might work for encouraging attacks.

 

[DeletedUser]

To me, that goes along the same lines of the attack bonus. It would still have to know what the targeted city is. Although really, either an attack buff or defense debuff might work for encouraging attacks.

It could be slightly easier, though.. rather than the game checking the target when an attack is launched, and modifying the attack power depending on whether it is or isn't a Wonder city, the game could simply deduct a small percentage from all cities on an island, as soon as the first level of a Wonder is completed... just speculating on the ease of changing it, both would probably take quite a bit of effort.

 

[DeletedUser8396]

i dont like it, but it is a billiom times better than the current..

Ill go for it

 

[DeletedUser]

A very good point brought up by someone else.

"Just had another thought on that guys suggestion of defense debuff as opposed to attack buff to cities there - it could make it trickier for when you have a siege on a city on the island. I'm sure it could be sorted by inno but could mean the idea that defense debuff is easier to code isn't quite true."

 

[DeletedUser]

A very good point brought up by someone else.

"Just had another thought on that guys suggestion of defense debuff as opposed to attack buff to cities there - it could make it trickier for when you have a siege on a city on the island. I'm sure it could be sorted by inno but could mean the idea that defense debuff is easier to code isn't quite true."

A good point indeed, hadn't thought of that. Attack boost/defence cut are perhaps equally easy/difficult to implement, then.

What about some sort of attrition damage to support in World Wonder cities? I'm not sure how it would work, perhaps similar to damage from ghost cities degrading.. It would possibly discourage the current strategy of permanently stacking Wonder cities with defence, and then put more focus on the defender having to request support when attacks are incoming.. It may also increase the amount of resources required for troop production, instead of having all resources going toward Wonder construction.

Of course, with something like that it would be difficult to get it working.. attrition losses would either be too large/too often, and be too much of a draw on defenders, or too small, and not have any significant affect at all.

Now that I think about it, attrition probably wouldn't work.. still just spitballing though.

 

[DeletedUser]

The world Phi ended in a rather anti-climatic and boring way.
Once the WW era started, everyone started building. There was almost no fighting.
Suddenly one alliance managed to build all 4 and won.
Then people started quitting....
So I agree there should be more interesting elements to the endgame stage.
For instance, make the ghost cities disappear faster. Shrink the world. Delete islands that have no cities. Make it such that players who lose cities no longer get to keep their culture points. Something monuments and really earthshakingly end-of-the-world type of scenario. More exciting that way.

 

[DeletedUser]

The world Phi ended in a rather anti-climatic and boring way.
Once the WW era started, everyone started building. There was almost no fighting.
Suddenly one alliance managed to build all 4 and won.
Then people started quitting....
So I agree there should be more interesting elements to the endgame stage.
For instance, make the ghost cities disappear faster. Shrink the world. Delete islands that have no cities. Make it such that players who lose cities no longer get to keep their culture points. Something monuments and really earthshakingly end-of-the-world type of scenario. More exciting that way.

Those last few sentences aren't really relevant to this idea. I'd make another thread about it.