4TRESS PnP 4TRESS vs 4TRESS

[DeletedUser10984]

Wargasm attacks pretty well but seems a bit bull headed

Greetings world this is the new incarnation of rekoor, your defender of the day thanks to Wargasm

 

[DeletedUser]

I thought I was attacking 4TRESS with all those biremes you guys stacked.

 

[DeletedUser]

I thought I was attacking 4TRESS with all those biremes you guys stacked.

I felt like I was defending against 4TRESS with all the colony ships that got sunk.

And lol 4T you gonna take that?

 

[DeletedUser]

Yea sorry typo. I can deal with 5 in ABP and 2 in DBP. Anyways should be a fun rest of the world.

It doesn't help coming at a player for their assessment when you can't even get your own statistics right. Having high amounts of DBP as an alliance also doesn't disprove that you're a bunch of simmers.

Yes, you are fifth in ABP, but it is a mediocre placing given that for the last few months, you have only gone after Olympus Returns and their new merged group. You have had the entirety of your existence in Psi and yet you cannot even surpass 4TRESS black despite being around as long, and 4TRESS are the biggest simmers in the server. I have even caught your alliance recruiting small fry and stacking them with defence, the very definition of refugee harboring, and a shameful tactic that 4TRESS employs. All of a sudden your alliance has become brave and decided to attack SF, all I can ask now is 'what took you so long?'

By the way it is also not difficult to get a top 10 ABP ranking in a world that has become dead over the last 6 months. If you were a top attacker before then for a sustained period of time, then that would be something of note.

 

[DeletedUser]

Tbro, my comment wasn't meant to say anything bad about 4TRESS, just to point out that you seemed to employ similar defense tactics despite prior comments in this thread disparaging bireme stacking.

 

[DeletedUser25566]

Horus,

Again I apologized for the typo previously. I agree that high DBP doesn't disprove that an alliance is a bunch of simmers. However, no alliance can be successful without a strong defense.

If you look at our stats we have grown both in offense and defense. I'm not sure which alliance you are in, I am sure you are probably a very accomplished player and your opinion is of course your own right to share. Just because we are an alliance with large DBP and slightly lower ABP doesn't mean that we are simply simming our way through the world.

If you look at the statistics, we were able to take a large number of cities over our last war while gaining a low amount of ABP. Unfortunately, most of our attacks hit air, I know at least 75% of mine have.

Anyways, hopefully this world will liven up because more BP would be completely welcomed.

 

[DeletedUser]

Tbro, my comment wasn't meant to say anything bad about 4TRESS, just to point out that you seemed to employ similar defense tactics despite prior comments in this thread disparaging bireme stacking.

Just messin with ya a bit, or do you prefer if I let not only our world but also our external forums die aswell? Tactics you've witnessed today/yesterday whatever you prefer are siiimiiilaaarr? Yeaaaaaaa I'll gooo with thaat. I know one thing I only stack to extract BP. I can just snipe your cs's if you'd like . Ask 4TRESS how that went during their last OP.

And on a sidenote yes you have 4 good players in Wargasm GK and I have a lot of respect for them. Well only for one and that's Ryan, but besides those 4 I'd agree with Horus Wargasm is a bunch of simmers.

 

[DeletedUser]

Wall of text for maximum damage and critical hits!

Horus,

Again I apologized for the typo previously. I agree that high DBP doesn't disprove that an alliance is a bunch of simmers. However, no alliance can be successful without a strong defense.

Not a problem gknasel, it happens. One thing for certain is that I come back at people with the same vigor they display, holding up a mirror can have its uses at times.

No doubt that no alliance can survive long term without a solid defensive strategy, but there is a difference between an alliance grounded in offense that simultaneously defends well, and a group of sim-city stackers. Wargasm, like 4TRESS, is more accurately in the latter category.

If you look at our stats we have grown both in offense and defense. I'm not sure which alliance you are in, I am sure you are probably a very accomplished player and your opinion is of course your own right to share. Just because we are an alliance with large DBP and slightly lower ABP doesn't mean that we are simply simming our way through the world.

Well if you're unsure, read my 'About Me' section on my page, you might understand me a bit better now. I'm a former Shadows Fall leader in this world, and also played in The Indomitable Gauls and The Unknown Quantity earlier on, two groups that were attackers like SF back then.

My comparison is not based on a ratio of ABP to DBP; there are plenty of alliances I have seen or played in that had more DBP, but were still excellent alliances, more so my own observations playing in rekoor, views of which were more or less echoed by the original owner. That is where I saw a sudden recruitment of a smaller player into 'The Chosen' the same day I sent a clearance attack, despite being in a non-aligned alliance to begin with, and the city was stacked with an unusual amount of defense that was not his own. Refugee harboring is a shameful tactic to employ in a game like Grepolis. I also noted that the majority of Wargasm players in and near O54 were mostly using defense, and they never once sent a serious attack attempt to either me or the predecessor of the account. That alliance stacks defense to the skies and did little else, aside from taking OR cities.

If you look at the statistics, we were able to take a large number of cities over our last war while gaining a low amount of ABP. Unfortunately, most of our attacks hit air, I know at least 75% of mine have.

While it is commendable that you are now attacking more indiscriminately, and your alliance managed to take some noteworthy cities; your alliance has had plenty of time throughout this server to do this. The reasons your alliance suddenly have found the gusto to do it 8-10 months later is fairly obvious to anyone who pays attention, all things considered. As for hitting air, that is something you have to deal with as an offensive player. You shouldn't be expecting to make easy ABP in one OP, especially at this point in a world that is winding down.

Anyways, hopefully this world will liven up because more BP would be completely welcomed.

Your lateness to the ABP table is very telling. I think it is a major letdown in Psi that so many players and leaders chose the easy path instead of fighting early on, this could have been a more interesting world had the attitudes of August to December of last year been carried on to now, instead we have a dying world full of turtles who think they are now clever for finally going on the offensive... what a loss.

Tbro, my comment wasn't meant to say anything bad about 4TRESS, just to point out that you seemed to employ similar defense tactics despite prior comments in this thread disparaging bireme stacking.

I think you have difficulty making a distinction here, one that I highlighted to gknasel above. Defence is fine, so long as it is not the majority unit-type you churn out.

Thanks Tbro....I think. No, don't let externals die. You seem to have revived them a bit.

Looks like new rekoor got banned already. Seems strange that the account came off VM and was totally inactive, lost 2 cities to 4TRESS earlier in the day, and all cities were completely empty, then suddenly right as our revolt attacks were hitting he logs in for "the first time" and then every city gets 5-6k biremes and 10k ground troops as support?

So if I have this correct, the only reason Wargasm managed to take any of those cities was because the account was vacant? That isn't surprising.

 

[DeletedUser]

Horus, yes we only got 1 city, but the account was active and plenty of defense was soon on the way from the time our revolt attacks hit. It was our assumption that it was inactive based on stats after VM ended and 2 cities lost ~12 hours before to a 4TRESS player. This was not an organized op, was just a handful of us who were around and trying to cease an opportunity to grab a few cities along our border that we thought were being/about to be recycled from an inactive account. As soon as we started sending CS attacks it was apparent that this wasn't the case.

The timing is simply related to us no longer being at war with ORCA for the past few weeks. As far as our prior war with ORCA, I don't see how this can be criticized. It was dictated by geography. We shared multiple oceans and they were an obvious enemy. They have many very strong players, especially former CA, and had success attacking us in O73. We had success in O62/63/64. While at war with OR and CA at the same time, who combined were vastly larger then us, would it have made sense to being attacking the largest alliance in the world?

As far as fighting later in the world, I didn't have my 2nd city until December and started in O62. I've been fighting since I started playing, just started later and wasn't near the core back then.

 

[DeletedUser]

We would have attacked sooner or later regardless of targets activity. Can't just sit and build wonders....will be boring and everyone will lose interest quickly.

 

[DeletedUser]

We would have attacked sooner or later regardless of targets activity. Can't just sit and build wonders....will be boring and everyone will lose interest quickly. Hope things get straightened out and comes off ban soon.

Everyone has already lost interest, I per example want to get the hell out of Psi, to much turtle play for my liking and my hatred for World Wonders is no secret,

 

[DeletedUser]

The only alliance's that I've saw actually take contested cities are SF FS and BE. I have no experience with Wargasm and Orca so I apoligise If i'm wrong but everyone has problem with inactives at this point as Psi is getting to a stalemate, so obviously people quit but the amount of inactive cites 4tress and friends take and then gloat about is pathetic, they take cities from inactives then feel good about it, have a sense of arrogance and think they are winning.
People annoy me.

 

[DeletedUser]

Horus, yes we only got 1 city, but the account was active and plenty of defense was soon on the way from the time our revolt attacks hit. It was our assumption that it was inactive based on stats after VM ended and 2 cities lost ~12 hours before to a 4TRESS player. This was not an organized op, was just a handful of us who were around and trying to cease an opportunity to grab a few cities along our border that we thought were being/about to be recycled from an inactive account. As soon as we started sending CS attacks it was apparent that this wasn't the case.

Then it might be more accurately described as the new guy scrambling defense, rather than being 'active' in the commonly-known sense.

The timing is simply related to us no longer being at war with ORCA for the past few weeks. As far as our prior war with ORCA, I don't see how this can be criticized. It was dictated by geography. We shared multiple oceans and they were an obvious enemy. They have many very strong players, especially former CA, and had success attacking us in O73. We had success in O62/63/64. While at war with OR and CA at the same time, who combined were vastly larger then us, would it have made sense to being attacking the largest alliance in the world?

Attacking OR and CA, and their merged alliances is not a problem in my books when it comes to skill. Focusing instead almost solely on them, while going after a lot of inactives is just far from impressive. SF has had periods of war with almost everyone and still managed to hold their own, despite smaller numbers, and players of which are more higher in the food chain than what you would be experiencing. The same could be said of plenty of other aggressive alliances from other worlds. I know at this point in the game that you have to deal with inactive takeovers more frequently than in the beginning, but as I have said already, your alliance has had the entirety of their existence to show otherwise, and it hasn't materialized. Had they taken some risks and showed they could hold up, then we could talk. We're now 11 months into the world, and all of the major offensive groups have suffered from internal losses and people quitting, as well as accounts being exchanged due to rampant simming and turtling in this world. You're only catching up now in a vacuum of inactivity.

As far as fighting later in the world, I didn't have my 2nd city until December and started in O62. I've been fighting since I started playing, just started later and wasn't near the core back then.

That might be the case with you specifically, and your stats are decent, but not for all of Wargasm. Your largest player has 3 times the number of points than actual BP, which screams simming. Dr Dim I know mainly builds defense and does little else, earlier on he built mixed units in most of his cities, despite being half a million points in size (lol). I think you are gathering the point now. The only alliance with similar sized players with less or similar BP ratios is 4TRESS.

We would have attacked sooner or later regardless of targets activity. Can't just sit and build wonders....will be boring and everyone will lose interest quickly. Hope things get straightened out and comes off ban soon.

If you think people are losing interest now because of the wonder phase, then you are more late to the table than you realize. There have been plenty of high quality players who have left this world earlier than you even started here, either due to RL issues or the rampant turtling of certain alliances.

 

[DeletedUser25566]

Attacking OR and CA, and their merged alliances is not a problem in my books when it comes to skill. Focusing instead almost solely on them, while going after a lot of inactives is just far from impressive. SF has had periods of war with almost everyone and still managed to hold their own, despite smaller numbers, and players of which are more higher in the food chain than what you would be experiencing.

I agree that SF has been impressive while fighting multiple front wars. You also seemed to have many players who have experience playing Grepolis and also had a very good position.

Tactically, for you fighting wars with every alliance makes sense. You control the core almost entirely. You have the advantage of strong supply lines. When attacking and building you can focus your entire outer ring on offense and your entire inner ring on defense. Top that with the fact that you all are very dense and have literally "owned the core," you guys are a strategic nightmare to attack. You can focus your outer ring to hit fast and your entire core to protect quickly with short travel times.

For any alliance fighting you, in many cases if their front with you is offense, which would only makes sense to effectively take cities, than their defense will have to travel across at least 3/4 of an ocean to arrive when under attack.

An example of this was when I attacked strategically to hit your outer NW most rim. While i timed my CS to land one second after Red Revolt, I still ran into 15000 troops and 1000 br. This quick response which was all based off of a tripwire most likely, shows your advantage. However, I thank you all for the BP.

For us, we have to be tactical. Would it really make sense to have an ongoing war with 3 top five alliances? The fact that we stayed neutral to you was the smart decision.

 

[DeletedUser]

We would have attacked sooner or later regardless of targets activity. Can't just sit and build wonders....will be boring and everyone will lose interest quickly. Hope things get straightened out and comes off ban soon.

Ryan. Don't feed the troll. Horus/Age of Enlightenment is one of the most egotistical, bad-mannered players that Grepolis has had the problem of having. It's a blessing that he's taking yet another break. He actually makes talking with Tbro/Maratto look like fun. AoE thinks that it's the turtles' fault this world turned terrible, but really it's the players like him, who, despite not even being active in the world, like to yell at and belittle other players over personal opinion. These unnecessary attacks have led to a large number of people quitting the world. With those people Psi would have been much more interesting.

 

[DeletedUser]

An example of this was when I attacked strategically to hit your outer NW most rim. While i timed my CS to land one second after Red Revolt, I still ran into 15000 troops and 1000 br. This quick response which was all based off of a tripwire most likely, shows your advantage. However, I thank you all for the BP.

For us, we have to be tactical. Would it really make sense to have an ongoing war with 3 top five alliances? The fact that we stayed neutral to you was the smart decision.

I can see what you mean when it comes to strategy, and yes, that surprisingly high level of defense you saw displayed was partly influenced from a strategy I started employing for SF about 6 months ago, but did not take full effect up until 3 months ago. That isn't to say that attacking SF is impossible, there are flaws to every method that any alliance can take.

Keep in mind that this strategy has been maintained, alongside some strong offensive play as well. Our rivals instead prefer to turtle up and don't even do a good job at it by comparison. This should say a lot about the 'competition' here. They are doing what is safe and predictable, nothing ballsy.

Ryan. Don't feed the troll. Horus/Age of Enlightenment is one of the most egotistical, bad-mannered players that Grepolis has had the problem of having. It's a blessing that he's taking yet another break. He actually makes talking with Tbro/Maratto look like fun. AoE thinks that it's the turtles' fault this world turned terrible, but really it's the players like him, who, despite not even being active in the world, like to yell at and belittle other players over personal opinion. These unnecessary attacks have led to a large number of people quitting the world. With those people Psi would have been much more interesting.

Well we can eliminate any prospect of you having substantial knowledge of this game, as even on a bad day, there have been far more abusive, egotistical, and arrogant players than me by a country mile in this game, past and present, including the world of Psi. Although better to keep calling me a troll while lurking the forums without any sense of irony. I have actually been described by several players and leaders whom I have played alongside with often that I am markedly neutral compared to many who could get a mention for 'ego' here.

There are only a very small handful of players I have ever been aggressive in intention or tone towards, so your claim is quite farcical in nature and far from accurate as to what has been a cause, but I know plenty of players who have left this world from different alliances due to shameless turtling, simming, and refugee-harboring employed by 4TRESS and friends. It takes considerably less skill to be successful at defense than it is to succeed offensively, and less bravery as well, that is something that a considerable number of players know and have known for years in this game. I have had the pleasure of playing alongside some much better defensive players than the kinds you see in 4TRESS over the last 2 years in various worlds, so my arguments are not a statement of trolling or ego to simply get BP, but something I can judge with considerable experience. Yes, I am not active at the moment, but who cares? I have been active more than a few times in this world from the beginning up until last month. Since you also seem to be pop up every time I have posted lately in these forums spouting all sorts of nonsense, you should know I left months before many of the excellent players in SF, BE, and FS had left (January to May of this year), and I know others within the core early on in this world who left because they had difficulty maintaining multiple worlds (like many players in TUQ, TIG, DA, RE, etc...). Yet again, this is evidence to the contrary of your claims.

Sweeping that aside for a moment, you know who I am, but who are you exactly? Have you actually played this world before? I copied and pasted your name into Grepostats and get no results, so unless you can provide an in-game name of note, your word carries as much as your presence in this world.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think that we can agree to disagree on a few things and don't need to keep up the back and forth. Ultimately, I think the blame for turtle play doesn't necessarily lie with any person or alliance, but is the result of the way the game is set up. Attacking takes much more time to do properly, and isn't properly rewarded. I think that many players quickly realize that they can run festivals to generate culture, take recycled cities or go after easy targets, and rarely risk losing cities by building defense in the majority of their cities all with much less time invested than if they choose to attack. On the other hand, if you attack, you often will have a worse kill ratio and get less bp (assuming the person you attack can defend reasonably), you have to use more resources and invest more time to rebuild at a slower rate, all the while you are doing significantly fewer festivals and hence not generating culture. There are lots of ways this could be fixed:

1. Change the relative strengths of offensive and defensive units to tip the balance towards the offensive units.
2. Give less of a bonus for stacked defense units.
3. Change the # of farm spaces require for bir and LS so they are equal or closer to equal.
4. Slightly lower the # of resources required for offensive units and increase for defensive units.
5. Make the build times of LS and bir equal or closer to equal.
6. Make victory processions from abp more valuable in terms of culture than those from dbp or city festivals.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think that we can agree to disagree on a few things and don't need to keep up the back and forth. Ultimately, I think the blame for turtle play doesn't necessarily lie with any person or alliance, but is the result of the way the game is set up.

This I can agree with but this does explain why so many turtles are spawned but in 4TRESS case members are encouraged to go full defense and others are encouraged to have 50% defense 50% offense. No one can deny these claims I have just made because they are stone cold facts. If any one wishes to prove me wrong get an invitation into 4TRESS and check out their forum then come try and fight my claim.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree with Tbro, I've seen 4tress forums myself been in green and black for obvious reasons as I'm not an idiot, and 4tress green is classed as the "defensive branch" of 4tress where all their players are defence, They also have defence captains which is a good idea but not when everyone player is a defence captain which is basically their strategy. With 120ish players 4tress should arguably be a good alliance, however the old saying goes Quality not Quantity which the sheep in 4tress gladly show us.
4tress green is the "defensive branch" yet the rest of the branches are basically full defence too. It's easy to sit behind a bireme wall because lazy players can stack a city and be big about how they are invincible etc.. There is no excitement to defending unless it's sniping which can be fun, but server lag hates me
Don't know how to quote so excuse the Forum noobishness

"1. Change the relative strengths of offensive and defensive units to tip the balance towards the offensive units.
2. Give less of a bonus for stacked defense units.
3. Change the # of farm spaces require for bir and LS so they are equal or closer to equal.
4. Slightly lower the # of resources required for offensive units and increase for defensive units.
5. Make the build times of LS and bir equal or closer to equal.
6. Make victory processions from abp more valuable in terms of culture than those from dbp or city festivals."

I like these ideas, you should maybe post in the idea section of the forums, I'm pretty sure the actually good players will agree with you.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sweeping that aside for a moment, you know who I am, but who are you exactly? Have you actually played this world before? I copied and pasted your name into Grepostats and get no results, so unless you can provide an in-game name of note, your word carries as much as your presence in this world.

Yes I've played on this world... much more than you, actually (although I will admit I didn't spend nearly as much gold/money as you did). I even played alongside you in SF and boy was I glad to see you go (both times). It makes playing that much more fun. But no I'm not going to tell you who I am -- I'm sure that the few SF members who did like you won't like me for telling people how annoying you are.

There are only a very small handful of players I have ever been aggressive in intention or tone towards, so your claim is quite farcical in nature

LOL. Clearly people only bad-mannered and belittling when they intend to be. It's this kind of "logic" (read: fallacy) and blindness which causes people to dislike you.

I know others within the core early on in this world who left because they had difficulty maintaining multiple worlds (like many players in TUQ, TIG, DA, RE, etc...). Yet again, this is evidence to the contrary of your claims.

Similar to above -- there is no proper implication there. Just because they claim to have had trouble maintaining multiple worlds doesn't mean that people like you didn't make them want to quit.

I left months before many of the excellent players in SF, BE, and FS had left

Uh oh. Your ego is showing again. I said people like you.

It takes considerably less skill to be successful at defense than it is to succeed offensively, and less bravery as well, that is something that a considerable number of players know and have known for years in this game.

I'm not sure why so my Grepolis players believe this to be true. There is so much hatred towards "turtles". To you and the rest of that "considerable number of players": play smarter, not harder. There's no reason not to play the game the best/most efficient way. And as has been said above that is not attacking willy nilly for ABP.