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DeletedUser

Guest
Sometimes, the death penalty is a good thing for the murderer. Take the example of Ian Brady, 'the Moor's Murderer', he murdered 5 people, 3 three of whom were children, and was both a paedophile, and a horrific murderer. Now Ian Brady has been in prison for many years, he hates it with all his cold, black heart. He wants to die, and be killed, whether it's by his own hand, or another's, if the death penalty was legal in England, it would be a relief for him. So say, you were the family of one of his victims, which would you rather happen, your child's murderer, to have relief, and die happy, or to suffer and have the most miserable life possible?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
A quick painless death. It's justice and mercy at the same time.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Gasp! You drove a car! Death be to you! I suppose you are aware of the green house effect and all that? You contributed to it. And if stuff like that gets really bad it could lead to the end of the world as we knew it, leading to the death of millions. Perhaps you and all car drivers should be sentenced to death. Don't say 'that's different' because in theory it's not. It's a 'time bomb', as you would put it.


That's an entirely different subject from The death sentence here. You can't sentence Billions of people to death....And it's a reasonable thing that people do everyday as a means of transportation....So in reality a high percentage of people don't care about that.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
A quick painless death. It's justice and mercy at the same time.

It is not really justice, because killing someone because they killed someone else, which I don't deny is horrible, makes you almost as bad as the murderer themselves, no matter how many pretty words you hide behind.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It is not really justice, because killing someone because they killed someone else, which I don't deny is horrible, makes you almost as bad as the murderer themselves, no matter how many pretty words you hide behind.

Slow and painful is an option I would make if it were me. Justice to a mercy to a criminal? Please...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
That's an entirely different subject from The death sentence here. You can't sentence Billions of people to death....And it's a reasonable thing that people do everyday as a means of transportation....So in reality a high percentage of people don't care about that.

First off, there are millions of pedophiles out there and you say that billions of people can't be sentenced to death, how about a million?

Second, what difference does it make if they are still assisting to the possible death of millions? Just because the majority of people do it doesn't make it right. Or are you one of those people who think 'well if they're doing it, who cares?'.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
First off, there are millions of pedophiles out there and you say that billions of people can't be sentenced to death, how about a million?

Second, what difference does it make if they are still assisting to the possible death of millions? Just because the majority of people do it doesn't make it right. Or are you one of those people who think 'well if they're doing it, who cares?'.

To answer your first question...Yes I am saying that because anybody without the right logic is dumb to think why they would use that as a defense.

Your second question...There is a huge difference from your greenhouse effect, then there is to this death penalty. You brought up an argument that would neutralize us and defend your idea and outlook on things. If the governments in the world wanted that put down, then I am sure they would have done so long ago.....But a mass majority of people don't care now do they?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Your first one made no sense, please clarify.

Second, it is the same theory. You were saying that it was punishable by death to contribute to a death, directly or indirectly, and even if it failed, you should still die. The greenhouse effect, etc. applies to the same concept. By contributing you're indirectly responsible to possibility of the death of millions. You're suggesting that a terrorist giving out information that could contributes, indirectly, to the death of millions deserves the death penalty.

The example I used was extreme yes but it was the same in theory as your point. You missed the complete point of it, thinking I was comparing the greenhouse effect to the death penalty. I was comparing it to the terrorist.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Your first one made no sense, please clarify.

Second, it is the same theory. You were saying that it was punishable by death to contribute to a death, directly or indirectly, and even if it failed, you should still die. The greenhouse effect, etc. applies to the same concept. By contributing you're indirectly responsible to possibility of the death of millions. You're suggesting that a terrorist giving out information that could contributes, indirect, to the death of millions deserves to die.

The example I used was extreme yes but it was the same in theory as your point.


I never said indirectly.....Contributing to a death deserves death or Life.....even if failed.....Why dont we just let go all the serial killers that failed to cover up their tracks....after all they failed Shadis, shoot why don't we give japan their military back, they failed to.
 

DeletedUser40768

Guest
Your first one made no sense, please clarify.

Second, it is the same theory. You were saying that it was punishable by death to contribute to a death, directly or indirectly, and even if it failed, you should still die. The greenhouse effect, etc. applies to the same concept. By contributing you're indirectly responsible to possibility of the death of millions. You're suggesting that a terrorist giving out information that could contributes, indirectly, to the death of millions deserves the death penalty.

The example I used was extreme yes but it was the same in theory as your point. You missed the complete point of it, thinking I was comparing the greenhouse effect to the death penalty. I was comparing it to the terrorist.

Any person with malicious intentions should be punished harshly. This greenhouse effect comparison is honesty silly. When you drive to work, are you planning to kill someone? I would think you are trying to make a salary to keep your family alive and happy. What about when you are driving to school, are you planning to kill someone? No they are trying to get an education. Also what about an ambulance driver, would he get the death sentence because he drove an ambulance to try and save someone's life and take them to the hospital? I can go on an on but the point is that you can't compare people with harmful intentions who don't have plans on doing good with people who are just using means of transportation. Not to mention there is no real solution to the greenhouse effect yet anyway, not like you can ride a bicycle to go everywhere :)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
ok, this may derail from the death penalty allowance.

Allow me to illustrate the invalidity of Shadis's argument further.

Driving, while contributing to greenhouse gases, is completely bifurcated from the concept of terrorism. Driving is accepted by society as a reasonable means of transportation. It's concept is solely based around the transportation of goods or individuals from location to location. In addition, by being part of society, you waive your right to make unilateral decisions about things such as the reasonableness of driving. Instead, you are part of a democratic or communal decision on whether or not driving is permissible. Clearly, since driving is accepted worldwide, it is given that the community accepts driving.

On the other hand, the community does not accept terrorism. Individuals, or individual groups may accept terrorism as a reasonable means to achieve a goal, but the worldwide community clearly does not. One may argue that each individual or individual group forms a select community that permits such behavior, but by attacking an exterior entity, that so-called community joins the worldwide community and forfeits its allowance in favour of the decision of the larger worldwide communal decision.

Anyways, back to death penalty.

Regardless of what a person does, the death penalty is never the answer, if for no other reason than the possibility of killing an innocent person and then discovering the person's innocence a posteriori.

“I hold this position for a number of reasons: these include the fundamental nature of the right to life; the unacceptable risk of executing innocent people by mistake; the absence of proof that the death penalty serves as a deterrent; and what is, to my mind, the inappropriately vengeful character of the sentence.” - UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay

In addition, there are economic reasons for favoring life without parole over the death row.

"The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California's current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually." - Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice (2008)

Finally, the purpose of the prison institution is rehabilitation and not punishment. Every person, regardless of crime, deserves the chance to be rehabilitated. Unfortunately, society's perception of prison is one of punishment, hence the lack of funding to programs designed to rehabilitate.

"Until the mid-1970s, rehabilitation was a key part of U.S. prison policy. Prisoners were encouraged to develop occupational skills and to resolve psychological problems--such as substance abuse or aggression--that might interfere with their reintegration into society. Indeed, many inmates received court sentences that mandated treatment for such problems." - ETIENNE BENSON - APA - Rehabilitate or punish?

"When properly implemented, work programs, education and psychotherapy can ease prisoners' transitions to the free world" - Chris Haney, PhD University of California.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
ok, this may derail from the death penalty allowance.

Allow me to illustrate the invalidity of Shadis's argument further.

Driving, while contributing to greenhouse gases, is completely bifurcated from the concept of terrorism. Driving is accepted by society as a reasonable means of transportation. It's concept is solely based around the transportation of goods or individuals from location to location. In addition, by being part of society, you waive your right to make unilateral decisions about things such as the reasonableness of driving. Instead, you are part of a democratic or communal decision on whether or not driving is permissible. Clearly, since driving is accepted worldwide, it is given that the community accepts driving.

On the other hand, the community does not accept terrorism. Individuals, or individual groups may accept terrorism as a reasonable means to achieve a goal, but the worldwide community clearly does not. One may argue that each individual or individual group forms a select community that permits such behavior, but by attacking an exterior entity, that so-called community joins the worldwide community and forfeits its allowance in favour of the decision of the larger worldwide communal decision.

Anyways, back to death penalty.

Regardless of what a person does, the death penalty is never the answer, if for no other reason than the possibility of killing an innocent person and then discovering the person's innocence a posteriori.

“I hold this position for a number of reasons: these include the fundamental nature of the right to life; the unacceptable risk of executing innocent people by mistake; the absence of proof that the death penalty serves as a deterrent; and what is, to my mind, the inappropriately vengeful character of the sentence.” - UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay

In addition, there are economic reasons for favoring life without parole over the death row.

"The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California's current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually." - Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice (2008)

Finally, the purpose of the prison institution is rehabilitation and not punishment. Every person, regardless of crime, deserves the chance to be rehabilitated. Unfortunately, society's perception of prison is one of punishment, hence the lack of funding to programs designed to rehabilitate.

"Until the mid-1970s, rehabilitation was a key part of U.S. prison policy. Prisoners were encouraged to develop occupational skills and to resolve psychological problems--such as substance abuse or aggression--that might interfere with their reintegration into society. Indeed, many inmates received court sentences that mandated treatment for such problems." - ETIENNE BENSON - APA - Rehabilitate or punish?

"When properly implemented, work programs, education and psychotherapy can ease prisoners' transitions to the free world" - Chris Haney, PhD University of California.



Like I said, The Death Penalty should only be to those who have killed people(s) or have contributed to it.
 

DeletedUser40768

Guest
Regardless of what a person does, the death penalty is never the answer.

If there is evidence that a person took away the lives of others, why let him/her live so that the mistake can be repeated. It is not like people do that on accident, they intentionally took away the life of another person or people so why do they deserve the chance to have it done all over again. It is much better to kill one criminal if it means preventing death of numerous other people.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
If there is evidence that a person took away the lives of others, why let him/her live so that the mistake can be repeated. It is not like people do that on accident, they intentionally took away the life of another person or people so why do they deserve the chance to have it done all over again. It is much better to kill one criminal if it means preventing death of numerous other people.

Exactly, we can keep repeating our same mistakes everytime
 

DeletedUser

Guest
If there is evidence that a person took away the lives of others, why let him/her live so that the mistake can be repeated. It is not like people do that on accident, they intentionally took away the life of another person or people so why do they deserve the chance to have it done all over again. It is much better to kill one criminal if it means preventing death of numerous other people.

Can you prove definitively that by taking that particular person's life, you'll save the lives of even one other person. Statistically, probably, but I'm not asking statistically, but instead of that very next person on the death row. Why do I ask you to hold to such a high standard? Because who the hell are you to play God and decide who lives or dies? In addition, if the standard for criminal conviction is that of beyond reasonable doubt, the standard for criminal conviction such that the convict dies ought to be higher. Of course, some nations/states believe in capital punishment and I respect their national sovereignty to do so. However, I do not see the value of killing someone when they can instead be placed in prison for life without parole.

I'm also going to ask for evidence that shows

It is much better to kill one criminal if it means preventing death of numerous other people.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Can you prove definitively that by taking that particular person's life, you'll save the lives of even one other person. Statistically, probably, but I'm not asking statistically, but instead of that very next person on the death row. Why do I ask you to hold to such a high standard? Because who the hell are you to play God and decide who lives or dies? In addition, if the standard for criminal conviction is that of beyond reasonable doubt, the standard for criminal conviction such that the convict dies ought to be higher. Of course, some nations/states believe in capital punishment and I respect their national sovereignty to do so. However, I do not see the value of killing someone when they can instead be placed in prison for life without parole.

I'm also going to ask for evidence that shows

What the heck is your problem? Did he say he Was playing GOD? Who are you to say what is and what is not? As for this, Killing matters statistically, if it lowers because of the Death Penalty, then so be it. Would you rather have them make more prisons just for these people to live out the rest of their lives in? No buddy, they should be sentenced to Death Row if they are guilty of it.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
playing God is a figure of speech when talking about holding power over someone's life or death

also, there's no evidence that proves the death penalty lowers crime. There simply isn't enough data to prove one way or the other because unfortunately, data gathering on this started only 25 years ago.
 

DeletedUser40768

Guest
Frozen13 said:
Because who the hell are you to play God and decide who lives or dies?

Can't we say the same thing about mass murderers who kill multiple people who did no harm to them. Sacrificing one life filled with evil will always be better than sacrificing numerous innocent.

Frozen13 said:
However, I do not see the value of killing someone when they can instead be placed in prison for life without parole.

I'm also going to ask for evidence that shows

Life in prison, do you know how expensive that can be? Having someone in jail for many decades is expensive, not to mention that comes out of taxpayers money. So that would mean that a murderer could be provided food, a cell and all life essentials every day by the victim's family who pays taxes (assuming they do). That hardly sounds like a fair situation for anyone, both the taxpayers and the prisoner. Not to mention from a prisoner's standpoint what is better, being locked in prison for life a slowly rotting in a cell until death finally comes or sitting in the electric chair and be killed instantly with little to no pain.
 
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