Discussion Re: Moderation and Mods

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DeletedUser

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I am not ...let me REPEAT that NOT going to discuss a specific banning as that has been stated as a NON-DISCUSSABLE topic. However I want someone to explain to me WHY] we cannot discuss banning in general and the fact that the games mods have noone to answer to.
For example, lets take this totally hypothetical series of events :

Player A is a mod on lets say Gamma for example. Player A is in an alliance with player B in lets say Alpha. Now player B plays about 4 worlds and Gamma is one of them. Player B is getting his tail lit up by a much better player (player C) in Gamma. Player A can help out Player B by slanting the playing field with a ban on player C for a petty infraction that normally gets a warning.
Now in that senario, who can protect player C ????? I know the standard answer is that the mods are not human and would never do something like that and that all bannings are totally unbiased. Well in my most humble and I might add unbiased opinion, that is simply not good enough.

Now I am sure that one of the forum mods will lock this up for some implied infraction of the forum rules and I will collect another point but at least give me an answer.

This game may be owned by inno games but it belongs to the people who play it. NOT the mods who as far as I am concerned should not have an active account in any world.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Why? What rules have been broken? Don't just think the mods are all powerful and can close whatever threads they want to at will and do whatever they want to at will.

I agree. If we can't look to our mods for help, who can we look to?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
So let me get this right, you want me to try to resolve ingame issues without having ANY experience of playing the game or even knowledge of what it looks like?

If you have any evidence that an ingame moderator is acting in a biased manner then you should do the following:

Submit a support ticket, stating that you wish to to be escalated to one of - myself, Ac04 or Betsy with your concerns. We will then look into the matter and address any concerns you may have over the matter.

Note that you will still not receive actual details of why a player is banned. As I have explained this information is not given out by the IGM's to anyone but the player themselves.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
If the mods went out of control, who would stop them? There needs to be a sort of Council or something that watch over the mods, otherwise they could rule without fear of repercussions.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Given that this thread is intended to be non specific I will be moving it to the acropolis.

I will be keeping a close on the contents of the thread, please ensure that we stay within the forum rules and the thread will stay open.

@MK

There is, you have different levels within the moderation team.
(lowest to highest)
Forum
Hero - Titan - God

Ingame
Moderator - Senior Moderator - Admin

If you have a problem with one, that you are unable to resolve with them then you can ask them to escalate it to the next person in the chain.
 
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DeletedUser

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Furry, I am not trying to be a jerk here...not my intent. I just want answers. and as to this post : "So let me get this right, you want me to try to resolve ingame issues without having ANY experience of playing the game or even knowledge of what it looks like?"
I believe that the mods should stop playing actively on any world while they are a moderator...ie Totally unbiased
They want to play god , let them give up an account to do so.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Okay, if I have a problem with a God or Admin I'm screwed then right?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
None of the mods wish to play god. We want to help the community, whether that be by keeping to forums clean of profanity and spam, or by dealing with players cheating ingame.

My point stands however. I have been a mod since February, if I did not have the option to play the game how would I be able to deal with any queries relating to any features that have been introduced since that?

No MK, if in your dealings with a God or an Admin you have a problem that cannot be resolved you can always ask them for the option of escalating further. As I am neither I am unware of the procedure for that, however they will be able to assist you with it.
 

DeletedUser4013

Guest
Dag68 said:
I am not ...let me REPEAT that NOT going to discuss a specific banning as that has been stated as a NON-DISCUSSABLE topic. However I want someone to explain to me WHY] we cannot discuss banning in general and the fact that the games mods have noone to answer to.
For example, lets take this totally hypothetical series of events :

Player A is a mod on lets say Gamma for example. Player A is in an alliance with player B in lets say Alpha. Now player B plays about 4 worlds and Gamma is one of them. Player B is getting his tail lit up by a much better player (player C) in Gamma. Player A can help out Player B by slanting the playing field with a ban on player C for a petty infraction that normally gets a warning.
Now in that senario, who can protect player C ????? I know the standard answer is that the mods are not human and would never do something like that and that all bannings are totally unbiased. Well in my most humble and I might add unbiased opinion, that is simply not good enough...
Click to expand...


I would like to point out that while a Mod may play in one world and moderate a different world that have other players from their in-game world, there are checks and balances in place for a player to use.

Firstly, in-game mods (aka Giants) are the first point of contact when it comes to support issues. If a player does not feel that the IGM did not resolve the issue to their satifaction, they can escalate it to the Senior In-Game Mod (SIGM), who will look into the matter and take appropriate action or uphold the previous decision. If again a player is not satisfied, they can bring it to the attention of the Admin Staff - namely Betsy and RyanWard08.

Secondly, the Forum Mods (aka Heroes) are also the first point of contact for many players and posters in here. They will deal with a specific world(s) or areas. Senior Mods (Titans) are their supervisors. We overlook larger sections of the Forums and assist in moderation, but will only step in if we feel that it is necessary. Above us are the Admin Staff who are mentioned above.

No where in any of this structure is InnoGames placed. We mod on a voluntary basis, and also play the game as customers as well. So as you can see, as players there is a structure in place for you to appeal any decision made by the Mod Team. Inno takes no part in this.

As Furry has mentioned, should you ever suspect a Mod of bias, report it at once and include any evidence you have to suspect this.

As for discussions of the game rules, that is welcome. If you have suggestions about their implementation in various circumstances please feel free to message the Mod Team. We will not however allow discussions of particular circumstances or specific action taken.

Dag, as for your Hypothetical Situation, I myself keep my in-game role as a player separate from my role as a Mod here in the Forums. My alliance mates know that I am a Mod, and I will advise them of anything going on with the game, such as bugs or other issues that are being addressed. But I have never used my position as a Mod to inform them of ANYTHING in our game world.

Dag68 said:
Furry, I am not trying to be a jerk here...not my intent. I just want answers. and as to this post : "So let me get this right, you want me to try to resolve ingame issues without having ANY experience of playing the game or even knowledge of what it looks like?"
I believe that the mods should stop playing actively on any world while they are a moderator...ie Totally unbiased
They want to play god , let them give up an account to do so.
Click to expand...

It would be impossible for us to help players here in the Forums if we gave up playing the game. We started as players and enjoy this game. Why ask us to give up something we enjoy to help ensure that other players are able to gain the most out of it?
 
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DeletedUser

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Dag68 said:
I believe that the mods should stop playing actively on any world while they are a moderator...ie Totally unbiased
They want to play god , let them give up an account to do so.
Click to expand...
Mods don't play in worlds they moderate. Please understand this! Also, why should they stop playing actively? Many ex mods when they stopped playing actively lost interest in moderating :s
 

DeletedUser5

Guest
Dag68 said:
Furry, I am not trying to be a jerk here...not my intent. I just want answers. and as to this post : "So let me get this right, you want me to try to resolve ingame issues without having ANY experience of playing the game or even knowledge of what it looks like?"
I believe that the mods should stop playing actively on any world while they are a moderator...ie Totally unbiased
They want to play god , let them give up an account to do so.
Click to expand...

That is a rather unfair thing to ask, Dag68.

You have some moderators who, like me, play no worlds actively. However, most are still very interested in playing the game, but want to do so while moderating.

A trend we have seen in the past is that when a moderator stops playing, they very quickly lose interest in moderating, and so they end up having to be replaced. To ask all moderators to give up playing would be a ridiculous ask of them, and would clearly lead to us having a very select few moderators on the team.

Turn the question around. If you were asked to moderate, would you want to be told you have to quit all of the worlds that you currently play? Would that be fair?

Now believe me, moderators do not play god. They have rules that they must stick to, like everyone else does. They are not given free reign of the world that they moderate. They are not allowed to ban anyone for any reason they want, they cannot interfere with gameplay unless absolutely necessary. Please stop trying to infer that they do.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Dag68 said:
I believe that the mods should stop playing actively on any world while they are a moderator...ie Totally unbiased
They want to play god , let them give up an account to do so.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure that this already doesn't happen as discussed in another thread started by Qlander. Which Mods are you talking about?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
As i wanted to say in the last one This is beating a dead horse...

If someone deserves a perment ban the mod that decides has to prove to the devlopers that they deserve it... if the mod is abusing the power of course the people in charge of this game higher then the mods will see it in the pocket book that people are upset...

Honestly if you guys wish to do a strike on this matter people will take notice... but whining on the forums no one but other players are going to look and the mods you wish to condem will keep shuting you down...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I would suggest that mods defer from playing the game while they are moderating. I know that you cannot be a mod on a world you play but many many players play multiple worlds , thus they have friends on almost every world. I have served as a mod on another game and I did give up an enormous account to do so and can speak from that point as well. I will not be foolish enough to mention any mods names as being biased...but I will report them.
 

DeletedUser4965

Guest
dannte said:
Mods don't play in worlds they moderate. Please understand this!
Click to expand...

That's quite clear, but Dag's point is that many people play on multiple worlds.

A World Y mod that doesn't play on World X can still be (even slightly) biased against an alliance or a person on World X because of their dealings with a person in World Y who also plays World X. A glimmer of a chance comes up to ban one of your friend's enemies on another world... you don't take it?

Moderators are human. All humans are biased in some way, to some degree.

We just want some sort of accountability or some ability to overturn ONE person's judgement.

The problem here is, what if that ONE person is at the top of the food chain?

Also, a banned player can no longer go on forums, can have their support tickets ignored... where's their recourse to get a 2nd opinion of someone higher up on the ladder?? If they're not allowed to communicate in the first place?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Banned players can go on the forums. Forum bans and in-game bans are completely separate.

All in-game mods are completely impartial. If someone's breaking the rules, then that player will receive the appropriate punishment no matter what. Like others have already stated, if you feel that a mod has acted in a biased manner, then simply message a senior in-game mod.

With your scenario:

Player A is a mod on lets say Gamma for example. Player A is in an alliance with player B in lets say Alpha. Now player B plays about 4 worlds and Gamma is one of them. Player B is getting his tail lit up by a much better player (player C) in Gamma. Player A can help out Player B by slanting the playing field with a ban on player C for a petty infraction that normally gets a warning.
Click to expand...

You are saying that an in-game moderator banned Player C just to prevent Player C from attacking Player B? You, my foolish friend, have made quite the accusation. Such action is completely illegal and would never happen. If a player was banned in-game it's because they broke the rules. Moderators would never ban someone just for the heck of it.
 
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DeletedUser4013

Guest
Nietha said:
...We just want some sort of accountability or some ability to overturn ONE person's judgement.

The problem here is, what if that ONE person is at the top of the food chain?

Also, a banned player can no longer go on forums, can have their support tickets ignored... where's their recourse to get a 2nd opinion of someone higher up on the ladder?? If they're not allowed to communicate in the first place?
Click to expand...

Nietha, how then do you propose that Admin Staff are made to be accountable? Inno takes no part in these Forums, the Devs never come in here to see what's going on. The Admin Staff rarely, if ever, take part in the infraction process on the Forums or in-game. If they do, it is because the action taken is being questioned. If the highest court in your country took the view that nothing needed to be done and that the penalty would stand, what would you do? You can't do anything because the course of Justice has been taken.

To add to what Eclipse has said, all Bans are subject to reiview by the Senior Mod Staff and we actively monitor whether people have been banned.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
And when are bans that allow players to still be attacked used?
 
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