Pnp Disloyality

Maleficent80

Phrourach
But like I said before the problem would be taking these cities with the thought of the possibility of turning around and using them against the people who gave them to you.

In the end it isn't so much that I have a huge problem with it, as I'm disappointed with it. It's one of a couple things I've seen lately that has shown me the TNE war isn't being done in good faith like I thought it was. Although, it's much nicer of a fight than any Troy has seen before.
If Lep took the cities from NR with the intention of and knowing that he would go back to TNE, I would be inclined to agree with you. I think (hope) you know most of us well enough though to know that's not something we would condone or encourage.

You're looking at the situation with the foresight and mental maturity of an adult- bear in mind Lep hasn't reached the stage of physical development to be capable of some of the cognitive processes your assumptions are based on. Lep follows what he feels, in the moment, without forethought or hindsight, just as most people his age do. Knowing Lep, I highly doubt there was any malicious intent, as I've never seen Lep attempt anything malicious- he just lives in the moment.

I understand why you're disappointed with the situation, I would be too if the roles were reversed. And I'm not saying you're wrong for being disappointed- I think anyone would be. My only issue is the saying that Lep was intentionally being underhanded, when he wasn't.

Try to remember back to when you were his age- how frequently you changed your mind, how you didn't consider the natural consequences of things you did, how what you felt changed from moment to moment and what you wanted changed with it....don't you think it's possible that's all this was? I think it's a bit unfair to him, to expect him to act in ways beyond his years then condemn him publicly when he doesn't meet that unfair expectation. I think some of the responsibility should be shared by those who are a bit older, wiser, and capable of more realistic foresight, even though they chose to not use it.....
 

eam132

Guest
In all fairness, if being drunk was a no-no I would have been kicked from every alliance I've been in several times. College life.
Yup some of my best work was done on a binge ;)

Nice to see the forums more active again
 

Obsidian King

Phrourach
If Lep took the cities from NR with the intention of and knowing that he would go back to TNE, I would be inclined to agree with you. I think (hope) you know most of us well enough though to know that's not something we would condone or encourage.

You're looking at the situation with the foresight and mental maturity of an adult- bear in mind Lep hasn't reached the stage of physical development to be capable of some of the cognitive processes your assumptions are based on. Lep follows what he feels, in the moment, without forethought or hindsight, just as most people his age do. Knowing Lep, I highly doubt there was any malicious intent, as I've never seen Lep attempt anything malicious- he just lives in the moment.

I understand why you're disappointed with the situation, I would be too if the roles were reversed. And I'm not saying you're wrong for being disappointed- I think anyone would be. My only issue is the saying that Lep was intentionally being underhanded, when he wasn't.

Try to remember back to when you were his age- how frequently you changed your mind, how you didn't consider the natural consequences of things you did, how what you felt changed from moment to moment and what you wanted changed with it....don't you think it's possible that's all this was? I think it's a bit unfair to him, to expect him to act in ways beyond his years then condemn him publicly when he doesn't meet that unfair expectation. I think some of the responsibility should be shared by those who are a bit older, wiser, and capable of more realistic foresight, even though they chose to not use it.....
What I would like to know then, why did he have offensive nukes built up in these cities ready to use when he didn't intend to go back to TNE? The only logical reason I could think of... oh wait there is none. Why would someone have offensive units far within their own - No Rules' - core? It does not sound very logical to me.
 

Maleficent80

Phrourach
What I would like to know then, why did he have offensive nukes built up in these cities ready to use when he didn't intend to go back to TNE? The only logical reason I could think of... oh wait there is none. Why would someone have offensive units far within their own - No Rules' - core? It does not sound very logical to me.
What does his building nukes have to do with anything? You don't want NR members to have nukes? Sorry....I don't understand what point you're trying to make
 

Obsidian King

Phrourach
What does his building nukes have to do with anything? You don't want NR members to have nukes? Sorry....I don't understand what point you're trying to make
What I was saying was: Why would a No Rules member build up offensive nukes in a safe zone without any nearby enemies? There simply is no logical reason behind it unless he was planning to go back to TNE.
 

Maleficent80

Phrourach
What I was saying was: Why would a No Rules member build up offensive nukes in a safe zone without any nearby enemies? There simply is no logical reason behind it unless he was planning to go back to TNE.
Ummm.....so he can launch clearings at the same time as CS when conquering, so he wouldn't have to stay up all night timing it is one reason that comes to mind....that's the main reason I do it. Launch everything in the same 5 minutes- SO much easier!! I kept a lot of O in TNE's core, anyone that was attacked by me knows that. Makes sense to me that he'd do it, so I don't understand where your logic is coming from.....
 

Obsidian King

Phrourach
Ummm.....so he can launch clearings at the same time as CS when conquering, so he wouldn't have to stay up all night timing it is one reason that comes to mind....that's the main reason I do it. Launch everything in the same 5 minutes- SO much easier!! I kept a lot of O in TNE's core, anyone that was attacked by me knows that. Makes sense to me that he'd do it, so I don't understand where your logic is coming from.....
As far as I know he only took internals in that area, cities that did not need a lot of clearing except for the revolt, if it was needed at all. And like I said, it was in a safe zone with hardly any enemy cities. And you can tell me whatever you want to, but there simply is no need to keep multiple nukes in your own core just to clear out inactives.
 

ryan1066

Guest
What I would like to know then, why did he have offensive nukes built up in these cities ready to use when he didn't intend to go back to TNE?
I think because he had no intention of keeping these cities and maybe wanted to get some abp before letting them go or was too lazy to kill what was already built. We were killing off all his offense in O64 when he slept, so he had to build it somewhere safe. If he wanted to try to keep these cities in NR waters, he would have built only defense troops and had a 25 wall in all of them and let you guys waste a bunch of nukes to revolt him.
 

eam132

Guest
If he wanted to try to keep these cities in NR waters, he would have built only defense troops and had a 25 wall in all of them and let you guys waste a bunch of nukes to revolt him.
Disagree with this part, def is for safe areas and off is for the frontline, you don't want to take more than a few hours to hit your enemies.

I do however agree with Maleficent on the fact that it is very handy to have some off in safe areas just for timing purposes and big cs attempts (need a lot of off for those).

Its just like I know some players who would have 1 slow transport in all their cities just to have 2 different launch times... In the rare extreme case I knew a player who wud in his land def cities have 1 slow transport, 1 ls and 1bir so he wud have 4 different launch times and in his bir cities, 1slow transport and 1ls... This really allowed him to have multiple shots at sniping and timing attacks... Does get quite complicated to juggle with them all (I tried it and it was hard, you couldn't really use the attack planner so it was the old pen and paper)
 

ryan1066

Guest
Maybe you shouldn't build defense if the intent is to push forward from these cities, but these were cities deep in NR waters (not on front line with NR) and there would be no point in moving further to the core from them at this time. This would just spread ourselves too thin. I've seen it happen plenty of times. Once you get too many cities deep in an enemies territory, you either can't put enough long term support in them to keep them safe, or you compromise the safety of your other cities due to having too much support out. If he wanted to keep these cities, they would at least need lots of standing defense troops and 25 wall to prevent revolts. He didn't request that, or place his own defense in them.

I agree about the slow trans and LS in all bir and def troop cities. I always do that. You can use attack planner to line up all your defense snipes, 1st with slow trans. If timing is bad, just remove the slow trans from attack planner and reset support with 1 LS instead of slow trans. Repeat again with only fast trans for 3rd attempt if needed. There are lots of other tricks to sniping as well, but I'll keep those to myself.
 

eam132

Guest
Yup I started with a conquest world and that was my favourite part of the game, sniping. Offensively, defensively, it was all gd. Trying to hit that 2sec gap before cs and then getting it not once but multiple times is just awesome...

Sadly in revolt theres only half the fun and tbh I haven't had the opportunity to snipe in this world yet, I don't get attacked enough to stretch my def to that point
 
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leopard55

Guest
lol :D I would not say all my cities were in a real safe zone. I just took cities not far from 064/054 borders so I could prepare and actually be able to take a proper city from TNE. When TNE attacked me constantly I could not have a proper navy so all my Offense nukes had to be land locked. I can't do much with land locked nukes besides get BP. I would also love for you to see the map and the cities I actually took in 054 and I would not call them being in a safe zone. I even got attacked once in 054 while I slept and lost nukes.
 
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Maleficent80

Phrourach
I do however agree with Maleficent on the fact that it is very handy to have some off in safe areas just for timing purposes and big cs attempts (need a lot of off for those).

Its just like I know some players who would have 1 slow transport in all their cities just to have 2 different launch times... In the rare extreme case I knew a player who wud in his land def cities have 1 slow transport, 1 ls and 1bir so he wud have 4 different launch times and in his bir cities, 1slow transport and 1ls... This really allowed him to have multiple shots at sniping and timing attacks... Does get quite complicated to juggle with them all (I tried it and it was hard, you couldn't really use the attack planner so it was the old pen and paper)
Thanks eam for clearing up what I meant for Obsideon King. I wasn't talking about clearing for the cities that were handed to him from NR, I was talking about using them to clear and attack others. And I'm not really sure where this whole 'deep in NR territory' thing is coming from. It's only about 1/2 an ocean from anywhere in NR land to enemy lines- not really all that far.

At this point, I think you guys are just determined to find some covert plotting to the situation, and no matter what would have been done, it would have been 'wrong and underhanded.' If he'd have built defense in the cities, it would have been to try to hold them, he built offense though, so it was to attack you from them- no matter what action he'd have taken, it could be twisted into something else. I've found in life, when people over complicate things in looking for reasons, that's usually about them, and 95% of the time, the simplest explanation tends to be where the truth lays.....Lep didn't have a lot of O because TNE kept killing it; Lep got new cities a bit further away from TNE and built some O so he could attack people (anyone), Lep doesn't plan his defense and offense placement the same as you and has his own methods and strategies (shocking, I know!) and just because that's the only reason you would build O there, doesn't mean it's the same for him. And because placing only D on the back line and O on the front line is not what the person who taught him (me) game strategy does, there is little to no reason for him to do it that way.

I have never cared about where cities were when I'd decide what to build in them- I didn't even know where half my cities were in relation to each other and I didn't really care all that much either. I was attack happy and splatted my troops a lot, and I would build based on whatever I felt like I needed more of, or what the city was already spec'd for. This world isn't so big that building only D on the back line makes much of a difference- this is a very small world, and pretty much everywhere is close to front lines. Yes, back in the Old Tribal Wars days and my first Grepo world it made a difference, but those worlds actually covered the whole map from 00-99 and the back line D was coming from 5 continents/oceans away where it didn't make sense to have O. But this world is so small the 'back line D' is only 1 ocean away and it doesn't really make a difference what you build where. But if you've never played a world that actually covers the whole map where you have to fight to win the majority of the world, you probably wouldn't understand the difference and I can see why you'd think that way.

Several of us do the slow trans and LS in defense cities for sniping- it was a strongly encouraged practice in TNE back in the day ;)
 

sablestag

Phrourach
Wow this conversation really took off without me, huh?
Uhh for a majority of NR defense is built in backline cities, I'd say way more than a majority, my original core is in O45; I'm now fighting in O65 there's no way I could launch attacks across 2 oceans and call it a good plan. So this is what we're used to. TNE on the other hand has a smaller core with a more stretched out frontline, backline offense is more understood.
Back to Lep, I'm confused about the landlocked offense. Where there TNE on these islands?

Also, have to say, you guys are fighting this underhanded claim pretty hard, haha
 

Maleficent80

Phrourach
Back to Lep, I'm confused about the landlocked offense. Where there TNE on these islands?

Also, have to say, you guys are fighting this underhanded claim pretty hard, haha
Sable, your description of the differences for the O v D placement strategy for both alliances is spot on- no it wouldn't make sense to build O 2 oceans away from where you're fighting. And most of TNE's territory has traditionally been so near one of the front lines, it didn't matter much what we built where. And we'd fight Offense more from our core, because we'd keep taking cities deeper in enemy territory and would have to make the front line cities D to hold them- that's pretty much how Lep is used to fighting.

I think he was saying they kept kill his LS harbor hunting his cities- so he wasn't able to use his nukes. IDK- I wasn't there, but is the way I took it.

And yes, we're fighting the underhanded thing hard because it's very contrary to our credo- the whole point of TNE was to see how well a smaller group could do, with no underhanded tricks, no spies, etc....just 'honest' Noble game play.....

The accusation cuts to the core of the alliance identity, which most of us take pride in....which is why it bothers us so much.....
 

leopard55

Guest
Back to Lep, I'm confused about the landlocked offense. Where there TNE on these islands?
Just as Mal has said, my LS kept getting killed so all my offense in 064 was mainly Landlocked. I could not take a single active city without an army that can travel on water. That would bring to the point that 054 was mainly supposed to replenish my Offensive army. That is the answer to Obsidians complaint that I have offense built in 054. Mal has already pointed out that I do use different strategies then some or most people which is true I guess.
 

eam132

Guest
I have never cared about where cities were when I'd decide what to build in them- I didn't even know where half my cities were in relation to each other and I didn't really care all that much either.
was gna reply to this but thought better of giving enemies hints :pro: ;)

lets just say i do both
 
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