DeletedUser11965
Guest
Trims are good for conquest if your a newbie not knowing how to time support.
DeletedUser14492
Guest
I agree that the majority of the units in the "not used" list are indeed... umm, not used... by most.
The reasons are as explained above, because of the unit/pop rec cost ratios. So if your fighting smart, you will pay heed to that information. But if you like the look and feel of them and have fun using them then that is also great.
I think the choice should be there, but I to have always thought, what are these for, no one uses them lol.
Ev
ps, my one slight dissagreement comes over Chariots, which have multiple applications depending on the situation.
pps, in my experience Hydra are completely useless other than for a pretend CS attack. They die just as easy as LS and dont kill any more birime either.
The reasons are as explained above, because of the unit/pop rec cost ratios. So if your fighting smart, you will pay heed to that information. But if you like the look and feel of them and have fun using them then that is also great.
I think the choice should be there, but I to have always thought, what are these for, no one uses them lol.
Ev
ps, my one slight dissagreement comes over Chariots, which have multiple applications depending on the situation.
pps, in my experience Hydra are completely useless other than for a pretend CS attack. They die just as easy as LS and dont kill any more birime either.
DeletedUser
Guest
I disagree with almost all of this, for the most part all of these units have their use in game even if used fairly rarely.
Chariot - I personally like having some chariots along with my hops in my sharp nuke or in a conquest city as they defend better against ranged than hoplites who have a very weak ranged defense. Chariots are also nice to have in a sharp nuke city as they are much more useful for farming than hops who are one of the worst farmers in game.
Hoplites - This one is just ignorant on your part. This is the best non mythical sharp attacker in game and one of the best units to build in a conquest city. Yes it takes awhile to build a nuke full of these but worth it imo as alot of people like to build a ton of swords and these will slice right through them.
Cyclops - I don't build them personally, but if you have the favor to spare they can be a decent unit in a conquest city, kind of like a mythical version of the hoplite, except with ranged attack. I will say it could do with some improvement though, so no major gripes here.
Minoutaurs - agreed, the only thing this unit has going for it is how cheap it is as far as resources and favor go.
Erinyes - Agree these are worthless as slings have better attack per farm space, saw someone suggest making this a flying unit, not a bad idea as there is no ranged flyer at the moment.
Centaur - Again very ignorant statement on your part. Centaurs are the best sharp defender per farm space on the game (besides the boar if you play hero world). These are excellent to pair with swords or even better pegs as they can make up for the pegs poor sharp defense.
Fire Ships/trireme - Disagree very much, especially on fireships. Again I dont personally use fireships as I hate there slow travel speed, but fireships are incredibly useful in defense if you are willing to build them. I know alot of very good players who will have a couple fireship cities. As far as triremes go they are pretty good to build in a conquest city as their slow travel speed isnt really a factor since a cs is slower.
Hydras - agreed, they would need to speed this unit up a decent amount to make it useful imo, either that or make its stats better, just not worth the favor and resources needed to build.
DeletedUser8396
Guest
I will reply using the OP's and my words.
I disagree with almost all of this, for the most part all of these units have their use in game even if used fairly rarely.Agreed. They DO have their uses, just most of their uses are pathetic compared to other units.
As per the defense of the chariot, I disagree. This is why:
B=blunt ; S = Sharp ; R= Range ; T= Total
Hop defense:
B= 18
S= 12
R= 7
T= 37
But, since it is being compared to a chariot, we must multiple our defense by for to compensate for FS difference.
37 * 4 = 148 total defense.
Chariot defense:
B= 76
S= 16
R= 56
T= 148
So, what have we here? The defense is exactly the same in total. Say goodbye to your defense argument.
Hop attack: 16
16 * 4 = 64 total attack
Chariot attack: 56
So, there goes any attack argument.
The ONLY thing chariots have now, is speed. But, whats that? I use transports? Well, lemme show you something.
On my island, for example, it takes my hops 36 minutes to travel in the time it takes my chariots to go 22.
And considering the UNITS speed only matters on the island, I would MUCH rather trade the extra power just for a small 14 minutes.
So there goes most of your speed argument.
So, now you ONLY have loot.
Hoplites have 8 loot per fs.
Chariots have 16 loot per fs.
But, I have yet to see anyone use hoplites for the sole purpose of getting resources, so there goes a lil' bit of your loot argument.
So, as I have shown, hoplites strengths FAR outweigh its cons. So, he is correct on the chariot.
*sigh* show me where he wanted to change hoplites
You ARE joking...right?
Cyclop attack: 756
Slinger attack: 23
23 * 40 = 920
So the slinger beats the living poop out of cyclop.
Then, you count in favor, so you spend a year making your nuke whenever i send 20 hoplites...
So, he is correct on cyclop
Agreed.
Agreed. IMO, raise the attack significantly, or make it fly is the only way to make it useful.
They may defend sharp well, but who cares?
They have a 5 range defense per FS. I send about 5 slingers...and you rebuild a centaur.
This unit is only a last ditch unit. They defend LAST, so suck at support. They dont even protect a CS.
If these were changed to make it they fought first, then it is good
He is correct on Fireships.
As for the triremes, im using an quote from a guide that compared LS and Bireme to triremes.
cobblemix said:BIREME & LS VS. TRIREME
VS.
As a sequel to the land unit comparison, here is the sea unit comparison.
And Here come our competitors! On the south side of the stadium, its the Bireme and Light Ship. On the north, the mighty Trireme.
Now the categories today are: Attack, Defense, Speed, Resources, and Time. In order to compare equally with Farm Units, we must have all units equal the same FS. Therefore, the Competitors will be 5 Biremes and 4 Light (80 FS altogether) and 5 Triremes (5 x 16 = 80).
First Competition: Attack
5 x 24 Biremes + 4 x 200 Light = 920 attack
5 x 180 Triremes = 900 attack
Although i don't recommend using Biremes in an attack, B & L win
_________________________________
Second Competition: Defense
5 x 160 Biremes + 4 x 60 Light = 1040 defense
5 x 250 Triremes = 1250 defense
Triremes win.
1-1
______________________________________
Third Competition: Speed
Bireme (15) + Light (13) means we go with the Light (slower) = 13
Trireme = 9
Bireme and Light win
____________________________________________
Fourth Competition:Resources
5 Biremes (4000 w, 3500 st, 900 si)+ 4 Light(5200 w, 1200 st, 3200si) = 9200 w, 4700 st, 4100 si
5 Triremes = 10000 w, 6500 st, 4500 si
B & L win again
______________________________
Fifth Competition: Time at Level 20 Harbor
5 Biremes (10:14:30) + 4 Light (11:55:08) = 22:09:38
5 Triremes = 14:53:55
Trireme pulls out strong
_____________________________________
Alright, so look at it this way. You can build 5 Biremes and 4 Light Ships in 7 hours more than 5 Triremes with the same amount of FS and less resources. If you send out your Triremes to attack, you have no defense at home. Rather if you send out your 4 Light Ships, you still have 5 biremes at home.
With the 1.14 update, Triremes have lowered their recruitment time, but its going to take more than that to make the Trireme useful
So i see Triremes as good defense units only to be used in escorting Colony ships or that can act as Offensive units in desperate times of need.
But overall, stick with the Biremes and Light Ships, they are more farm space and battle strength efficient
__________________________________________________
Page 2
Link to full guide: The Guide to Grepolis
Agreed here as well.
DeletedUser
Guest
Going to leave most of this topic alone - let wiser heads prevail. Just wanted to ask for some clarification.....
On proposing that fliers be allowed to carry units - is there a proposed limit to the type? Having a pegasi carry a hoplite or slinger seems plausible. Having them carry a catapult or any type of naval unit (fire ships or biremes for support seem less likely). Will mythical units be able to carry other mythical units? Harpies carrying a smaller Medusa only strike force - giving up the striking power for 4x the speed?
Most of the arguments seem to center around Off/Def per FS - the units more seldomly used do have advantages in other areas. Would multiplying that advantage be enough to make them more attractive?
Many thanks for your time and consideration.
On proposing that fliers be allowed to carry units - is there a proposed limit to the type? Having a pegasi carry a hoplite or slinger seems plausible. Having them carry a catapult or any type of naval unit (fire ships or biremes for support seem less likely). Will mythical units be able to carry other mythical units? Harpies carrying a smaller Medusa only strike force - giving up the striking power for 4x the speed?
Most of the arguments seem to center around Off/Def per FS - the units more seldomly used do have advantages in other areas. Would multiplying that advantage be enough to make them more attractive?
Many thanks for your time and consideration.
DeletedUser8396
Guest
I think inno would put it in reasonably.
Most likely would be 1 FS per carrier unit
Most likely would be 1 FS per carrier unit
DeletedUser
Guest
Agree with a pebble on that, but which units will be able to carry,
I think Pegasus, centaurs, cerebruses, harpy, hydras, and manticores should
DeletedUser8396
Guest
everything above except hydras
DeletedUser8790
Guest
Who does not like triremes? That is the coolest unit in grepolis. I know when a spy see's those snappy sails in my harbor they will think twice before attacking me.
DeletedUser29371
Guest
lol... ye i die laughing and cant click attack when i see them on revolt world in spy report
DeletedUser
Guest
I agree with letting certain myth units carry small amounts of troops. It gives incentives to make the myths.
DeletedUser
Guest
I know it wouldn't make complete sense, but every god should have a carrying unit.
DeletedUser29371
Guest
Tbh what i think is....
Every offensive Mythical unit should have higher dmg per farm space than their offensive normal unit
Every defensive mythical unit should have higher def per farm space than their defensive normal unit
BUT mythical offense units should have lower defense than their normal counterparts in units (aka Erineys should have less defense per farm space than Slinger)
And same goes for Defense mythical units.
The whole point of mythial units is to be better than their def/off normal unit counterparts... If this is nto the case the only reason they might be purchased is
- for their flying option (Harpies) & looting (Harpies)
- their balanced resource + low favor cost and decent punch combination (Minotaures)
Thats why any good and smart player will 99% of time use : Harpies, Manticores, Medusas, Cerberus and maybe a few Minotaures and eventually Hydras.
But all those mythicals should only have higher dmg/farm space for a few percents (around 2-5%) not more so its a little better.
Every offensive Mythical unit should have higher dmg per farm space than their offensive normal unit
Every defensive mythical unit should have higher def per farm space than their defensive normal unit
BUT mythical offense units should have lower defense than their normal counterparts in units (aka Erineys should have less defense per farm space than Slinger)
And same goes for Defense mythical units.
The whole point of mythial units is to be better than their def/off normal unit counterparts... If this is nto the case the only reason they might be purchased is
- for their flying option (Harpies) & looting (Harpies)
- their balanced resource + low favor cost and decent punch combination (Minotaures)
Thats why any good and smart player will 99% of time use : Harpies, Manticores, Medusas, Cerberus and maybe a few Minotaures and eventually Hydras.
But all those mythicals should only have higher dmg/farm space for a few percents (around 2-5%) not more so its a little better.
DeletedUser
Guest
Nce the idea of mythical units carrying other units is kind of separate, I will be starting a new thread http://forum.en.grepolis.com/showthread.php?38669-Mythical-Units-Carrying-Other-Units
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DeletedUser
Guest
You completely misread what I stated about the defense, I know their defense is equal per farm space, the COMBINED defense of the two units is more comprehensive against all unit types, hoplites have very poor defense against range, Slingers nukes are probably the most commonly used nuke on the game. Therefore the defense of the two combined will defend better against all unit types.
I never once mentioned anything about the speed so dont know why that is being brought up.
As far as the loot goes that is double the loot per farm space, that adds up. Why would you not farm with your sharp nuke if you had cities you could loot with it? More resources is always better and a full sharp nuke still nets quite a bit of resources.
You may want to check your eyesight and the original post.*sigh* show me where he wanted to change hoplites
I never said they were better than slings or to make a nuke out of them. If you pair them with hops they can be good in a conquest city.
Again you need to learn to read a whole post, I did not say to make a nuke of Centaurs, I said you can build them with units such as swordsmen and Pegs to cover their horrible defense in sharp, I never said to make them alone, they are to be used with other units as most defensive units are to cover up the deficiencies of each other.
A fireship nuke destroys a whole Ls nuke, where a bireme does not. When an attacker use LS against these they are losing more resources and getting less bp per pop. Which means they do have a use, again I know many very good players who have a few fireship nukes.
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DeletedUser8790
Guest
A fireship nuke destroys a whole Ls nuke, where a bireme does not. When an attacker use LS against these they are losing more resources and getting less bp per pop. Which means they do have a use, again I know many very good players who have a few fireship nukes.[/QUOTE
I agree, The travesty with firsehips is you can be conquered even if your harbor is full of them. I have always been adamantly against that, It makes no sense, I can have 1,000 fireships but yet a cs with 1 transport can conquer my city? It is just stupid.
I agree, The travesty with firsehips is you can be conquered even if your harbor is full of them. I have always been adamantly against that, It makes no sense, I can have 1,000 fireships but yet a cs with 1 transport can conquer my city? It is just stupid.
DeletedUser
Guest
I agree that is a problem Callinectes, but fireships are not to be used to protect against sieges. You would slide them in against single ls nuke attacks to destroy their nuke with minimal losses. With a ls nuke of 280 you can destroy up to 600 biremes, 280 fireships would beat that nuke, much better losses for you and less bp for them.
DeletedUser8396
Guest
But THIS IDEA is about IMPROVING THEM! The chariot is basically the trireme of land units. Ok attack, OK defense, but is beat out by other units. Chariots irl were meant for attack. This, the chariot is pathetic in attack.
The commonality of the nukes doesnt matter. IF they are hit by a different nuke, each unit has its strengths.
Combining them i disagree with. Make a defense city. It will far supersede the defense level of the chariots.
We were comparing chariots vs hops, so i brought up nearly everything.
You severely misunderstood that point.
On YOUR island that the nuke would be on, the difference of travel speed is so minute, it is better to trade power for speed. Then, the travel speed of units is irrelevant when it is off-island.
Oh goody. I get to make someone look ignorant today.
So, you may want to check your eyesight mate. Ill be awaiting an apology...
I think you dont quite get the point of debating. You brought up a unit that you didnt think needed to be changed. I countered with how it is rendered useless by the slinger. Cyclops is an attacking unit and takes long to make. The slinger is stronger, and faster to make. See?
Very well, you use them...I'll be busy farming you
Ok, you use them...I'll just send a CS, a transport, an ls, and a swordman...then post it everywhere and make you look like a fool
Then you can come attack me
...same method and everything. 1 cs, 1 transport, 1 ls , 1 swordman...but I'll use my biremes...then post that report and make you look like a fool.Fireships fight LAST. it makes them useless defending a siege, useless defensing a city , and they dont attack. Biremes can defend a siege, can defend a city, and (although i dont recommend it) can attack lol.
So, you were saying?
DeletedUser
Guest
It sounds like it might be a good idea, but having fireships damage more than warships would make them overpowered and render the biremes as inefficient and even useless.
DeletedUser
Guest
Why are people hating on myth units lol? Manticore nukes are amazing in breaking seiges, I always have 2 manticore nuke cities in ermegencies.