Pnp HEROES

Kyrakia

Hekatontarch
This is an example of what could be put on the external forum, it may need to be refined.

HEROES have recently broken their NAP with Mallorean Empire by sending some attacks, which lead the founder of Mallorean to politely ask neily1, diplomat for HEROES, to inform the offender of the NAP. tikehound69 claimed that they did not need to ask for permission to attack Naps for in a game of war you may attack whoever you like, with the following claims.

"Is there a reason you were not messaged?????
I do not seek permission before I send out attacks!
THIS IS A GAME OF WAR!"

And mocking diplomacy by writing this in his profile for you all to see

"How to start a war
Kal Gordon"Please don't attack us as we have an NAP"
tikehound69"Ok, you have a NAP,but I will attack anyway"

neily1 claimed that as the larger alliance we cannot tell him what to do, and he won't try to prevent these attacks, in spite of the NAP. Following this neily1 abolished the NAP and immediately commenced the OP on us sending even more of our cities into revolt.
neily1 claimed that by asking for something to be done about these NAP breaches the Mallorean founder was trying to boss him around "You wish to tell me how my players should behave then so be it". This is ignoring the irony of how neily1 has several times dictated which players we must kick, and even trying to tell us which Oceans we are not allowed to recruit in (our core Ocean).
He claims that he may break an NAP whenever he wants without warning us "I'm not sure what sort of war games you have been playing but, no, you most certainly do not give fore warning" (noting that this is very similar to what was said by tikehound69), but this makes me question what the point of an NAP is, and what it means for them.
We have had problems with refugees before (in which cases we did as we were asked, and kicked several members), however I am quick to inform neily1 that this was not the case, as the player in question had never been attacked by any HEROES members prior to joining us, and so that is not an excuse for these actions.

We don't expect anything to be done by neily1 or HEROES, except possibly argue and step up their attacks on us because we revealed their attitude towards diplomacy. However we hope that this information can better prepare those who have pacts with this alliance, as well as those who may be conducting diplomacy with neily1 on other worlds.

I would note that this is primarily the fault of neily1 and tikehound69, not all the members of their alliance.

I have no doubt that the honourable diplomat of HEROES would like to add his own voice, and we await his reply.

Kyrakia, member of the Mallorean Empire
 

neily1

Phrourach
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.... Nope nothing much to say mate. Your alliance decided to mass recruit in our core even taking in our farms then get annoyed when they are continued to be used as such. Your leader then decided to tell us how we should run our alliance and how players should be disciplined. You know nothing of the situation other than what KAL wants you to know and you wish to slander me wherever possible including other worlds. I will keep this to PM's and in game play, just how you should have done and not this ridiculousness....

I always told kal to do whatever he wanted with refugees. it was always his suggestion to kick them. You really have no clue!
 

Kyrakia

Hekatontarch
I can assure you we did not mass recruit in your core, we rejected the majority of applicants we had, and would like to remind you that your core is also our core, essentially telling us that our entire Ocean was of bounds, as you claimed that you had been farming them all.
You are yet to defend the point of the post, that your members broke the Nap and how you refused to tell them of it, saying that as the smaller alliance he can't tell you what this means (that you cannot attack the members of the Napd alliance), before deciding that you could abolish the Nap without warning, once again I ask, if you can break the Nap with no warning then what is the point? If you had an Nap with an alliance, and then they all attacked you with the message "Ok i guess this means we should call an end to the NAP then..." would you feel betrayed, note you would have known anyway and so the message counted for nothing.
I know what was said as Kal has forwarded these messages, and I posted on this to inform others on how you deal with diplomacy.
 

neily1

Phrourach
As i have said... I am not discussing individual players or conversations on externals. You can continue your smear campaign as much as you like. I know the facts, kal knows the facts. You can all get as huffy as you like that we didn't give you notice of ending the NAP but why on earth would we? We were forced to end it so we ended it, why would we say "we're ending the NAP in a week because of your behaviour now, please shore up and be ready for attacks". Do me a favour! Do yourself a favour and step away from the keyboard and focus on your game mate
 

Kyrakia

Hekatontarch
You may end this discussion, but I stand by what I said, the reason for informing us is for diplomacy (and no, I never suggested a week) just as we inform others when we end Naps.
I shall end the discussion on that topic now potential and current pacts know that you would readily attack them without warning.
I see throughout this you have remained silent on what happened within this Nap, and while I do not ask for you to reply, I dislike the issue of Tikehounds impression that he may attack regardless of Nap, pact or other diplomatic standing, and how you refused to inform him that this is not the case, prefering to let him carry on and attack who he wishes, once again quoting how the smaller alliance can't tell you what to do.
 
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neily1

Phrourach
I remain silent on what happened as it is A) Not your business. Your leader knows what happened and B) Not a subject for externals.

Look, I get it. You're P***ed off, you are in an alliance that was in a NAP with us and that NAP was dissolved. Your leader spouted some very emotive comments which i am privvy to. Your leader picks and chooses which messages are shown to back up his side of the story. I'm a terrible person who does bad things. There are many leaders i deal with from many alliances who know how i conduct our diplomacy so know full well what you're saying is coming from a preservative, emotional perspective and that is why i've stopped with PM's with yourself and why i am not publishing anything from private messages. I'm not one for trolling so intend to neglect this thread as such. PLEASE bare in mind there is nothing personal in grepolis, it is all meant to be fun, so please don't make things that way
 

ZeokTV

Chiliarch
When reading what I say here forth note that I am simply a loyal member of HEROES, and in no way shape or form related to the diplomatic matter posed to us today.


In recent events from what I've heard and seen it has seemed as if HEROES has obviously broken the NAP with Mallorean's without warning, in this process HEROES has seemed to upset those in Mallorean Empire as they have been slaughtered one by one without mercy with no heads up whatsoever. So the question comes to hand, who is at fault; and why is it that there was no warning?

The answer to who is at fault is honestly everyone. During the agreed NAP I seen little to no communication or assistance from EITHER side of the table. If you are looking for good relations between alliances, there need to be a structure built on trust and dedication to one another. Respect is earned, not simply given. The issue here is that neither side really tried to increase relations with one another, but simply left the NAP to be that. A NAP.

Now the other question at hand is more based on matter of opinion. This is where people need to decide how they feel about this subject for THEMSELVES. Labeling someone as something based off the actions they take is your opinion, and you are totally entitled to that. In my personal opinion the way HEROES broke off our diplomatic relationship (If you even want to call it that) was totally called for. Personally I seen no attempts made on both sides to increase relations from any of both sides members, and due to this there was no bond in the first place to break. You can't break a chain that isn't there, that is essentially what i'm seeing here today between these two alliances.

Now, what was said between diplomats of both sides is between the diplomats and their higher-ups respectively; and in my opinion neither sides information between these parties should be disclosed with anyone other than said parties. What we as individual members take from what both sides say and what we here is up to us, and how we view these matters. Simply put I just ask that during these times we don't make rash comments and simply do with what we have. Some may see this event as a backstab, especially due to the no warning. However in all arts of war there is no such warning, a NAP is what it is meant to be until one side or the other breaks such NAP. There are no warnings to matters like these; Both in game, and out of game.


-That's my opinion, take it how you please.-​
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Thank you ZeokTV for your opinion. I have to say you may be right in some cases. However I did try to increase relations a few times by asking to open negotiations for a proper pact, and I was met with a statement that there was there was too much going on at that moment, or it was simply ignored in favour of addressing the other topics in the message trail. I decided not to push it after several attempts, as I thought I might be seen as too desperate or demanding.

And on a separate note, before an Empires spy found out and I was backed into a corner by Minimo, we had shared defence as well, and while very few of us had transports, I personally assisted in a couple of defensive operations, including sending support to Neily during what appeared to be an operation against him. While there was a spy or two in Empires and my alliance was not strong enough to fight them, the shared forum was closed in order to keep our intention to join in later a secret, but it was not set up again after Empires fell apart, which I will admit I should have chased up on, as there can't be communication between regular members without a shared forums.

And Neily, I concede that you may be a good diplomat in other cases, but in my opinion the way you broke off the NAP was not exactly respectful. I don't believe that I forced your hand, and while I may have come on too strong, there wasn't a necessity to break the NAP over this. Bringing up issues is an important part of working together, and I feel as though I was rejected the moment I brought up an issue in which my player was definitely in the right. I can see why you did what you did, but I believe there were better ways to do it, and that it was not as necessary as you make it appear.

It is all meant to be fun, and maybe the odd sudden war can play a part in that, but in my opinion there are right ways to go about it, and wrong ways to go about it. And, for me, the tone of the message with which the NAP was broken was a bit too far towards the wrong way. I understand that opinions may differ, but in this case I believe that the way in which you went about it ruined the fun of the game for me and various other members of my alliance. You say that there is nothing personal, but the way in which things are said can make it feel very personal, especially for those who come out worst. But that is my opinion, and I am trying to inform you rather than persuade you, as it is obvious that you and I will not share the same opinions on this issue.

(And ZeokTV, you were remarkably quick off of the mark with a conquest against my alliance after the NAP was broken. I am not saying anything either way about it, it was just something I noticed. Congratulations).

Kal Gordon
 
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ZeokTV

Chiliarch
(And ZeokTV, you were remarkably quick off of the mark with a conquest against my alliance after the NAP was broken. I am not saying anything either way about it, it was just something I noticed. Congratulations).

Kal Gordon
To be frank, expansion is key to success in this game. When productive opportunities arrive, I take them. I appreciate your willingness to share you side of the story with everyone and I hope that in the end we all come to appreciate the flexibility and reaction of the players in which we all play with.

All I can say is Good luck, and have fun.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
All I can say is Good luck, and have fun.
We will try our best to have fun, and we will need all the luck we can get. It isn't exactly fun when a Top 12 alliance turns on you with no warning with the reason being that you brought up an issue so that it could be fixed and therefore preserve the NAP, or when players mock you personally because their lack of respect for diplomacy worked in their favour for once. (That last phrase does not refer to Neily, but to the player who decided to attack the non-refugee.)
 

tikehound69

Hekatontarch
Oh dear. Have I caused a bit of a stir?
Yes?
Oh good.
Our Alliance was getting a bit bored after the annihilation and disbanding of The Empire alliance.
There were 3 players on MY ISLAND from Mallorean Empire and I had lots of offensive troops with nothin to do, so they were sent out for frolics in the sun.
One of the Mallorean's called Luraiche cried to his new leader, he cried to me, I cried laughing. I then wiped out all of the troops from the 3 Mallorean Empire players while they were NAPing. And a new war was started.
This is a game. A game of war.
Am I bad? I do hope so.
My actions were independent of and without knowledge of anyone else in Heroes.
 
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Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Tikehound, I will just focus on one or two bits of your post, as the rest is clearly designed just to mock people, particularly me.

You have shown, through your actions and your words, that you can't be relied on to follow the commands of leaders in your alliance, as I was informed that Neily sent out mass mails telling players not to attack us due to the NAP. I will not pursue that further, except to wonder why you openly advertise your failings both to your alliance and to others.

Your last statement is a lie. Neily knew that you had broken the NAP with us multiple times. Therefore your actions were not without knowledge of at least one of the high-ranking members of your alliance. Whether he actually said anything to you about your lack of respect for your leaders or for diplomacy, I do not know, and nor do I think I will find out. Also, as a member of an alliance, your actions will always be linked to the rest of your alliance, whether you think they are or not. By being a member of an alliance, you represent them.
 

OLIJAN

Hekatontarch
Well,well..... get some popcorn and think. Luraiche was our farm since he had 900 points. The other dudes on the island as well. When we agreed on the NAP they were not members of your alliance. We will not accept that our farms (located in our core) join a foreign alliance and expect to be treated as friendlies. As Kal said...they tried to reach a formal pact with us and it wasn't of our interest. Then the trouble with our farms started and we cancelled the NAP. Now you will leave our ocean...because it is our ocean and not yours. Point. You are getting evicted in this instant. You shall not take anything for granted in this game. It would have been way smarter not to pick up our farms. Next time you know better.
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Luraiche was a farm, but he hid that from me until after he joined the alliance. When I found out, he was kicked. Zakemar had been farmed several weeks before he joined, but had not been attacked in the couple of weeks leading up to joining. And Ronthorn had not been farmed at all, especially by Tikehound. So calling them all farms is a blatant lie.

And if it wasn't in your interest, why would a diplomat, who says he is respectable, bother keeping the NAP as long as he did. If he had had no interest when I suggested it, then this NAP would have ended much earlier, but at least he wouldn't have been misleading people.

When I was informed of issues with farms, I made sure they were sorted out. The big issue was when Tikehound attacked a player who was definitely not a farm. And this was the incident that caused your side to abandon the NAP.

There were members of Heroes who were not in Heroes when the NAP was formed, but in fact members of Empires. Using your logic, we would have been allowed to attack them, but I expect that if you were the one having players attacked, you would have said it was our fault.

By saying not to take anything for granted in this game, you are implying that you cannot be trusted either, thus further tarnishing the image of your alliance. 'Point'.

You can talk all you like about evicting people like it is some great achievement and you are being bold and brave, but all you are doing is picking on a smaller alliance, which really isn't much of an achievement, is it?
 

OLIJAN

Hekatontarch
Luraiche was a farm, but he hid that from me until after he joined the alliance. When I found out, he was kicked. Zakemar had been farmed several weeks before he joined, but had not been attacked in the couple of weeks leading up to joining. And Ronthorn had not been farmed at all, especially by Tikehound. So calling them all farms is a blatant lie.

And if it wasn't in your interest, why would a diplomat, who says he is respectable, bother keeping the NAP as long as he did. If he had had no interest when I suggested it, then this NAP would have ended much earlier, but at least he wouldn't have been misleading people.

When I was informed of issues with farms, I made sure they were sorted out. The big issue was when Tikehound attacked a player who was definitely not a farm. And this was the incident that caused your side to abandon the NAP.

There were members of Heroes who were not in Heroes when the NAP was formed, but in fact members of Empires. Using your logic, we would have been allowed to attack them, but I expect that if you were the one having players attacked, you would have said it was our fault.

By saying not to take anything for granted in this game, you are implying that you cannot be trusted either, thus further tarnishing the image of your alliance. 'Point'.

You can talk all you like about evicting people like it is some great achievement and you are being bold and brave, but all you are doing is picking on a smaller alliance, which really isn't much of an achievement, is it?

Not a farm ??? So what is that ??

Ronthorn.png


And picking on smaller alliances ?? Yeah, we were small too once and than we grew. It is not our fault that we became larger than you...maybe we had a better leadership ? Don't you think so ?
 

tikehound69

Hekatontarch
NOT TRUE Kal!!!!!!
I attacked every player on the Island from the start apart from Olijan who was also in Heroes from early on. The truth is Luraiche, Zakemar and Ronthorn were plunged on a regular basis. Just look at my Battle Points, those were gained over many weeks in attacks on all cities on the island.
I do admit to breaking the NAP, which was a unilateral decision and I make no apology.
At least now we have a bit of a war to amuse us in the long winter nights.(Albeit a one sided skirmish!!!!!)
 

neily1

Phrourach
Well this little smear campaign appears to have run it's course. I must thank you, all it has really achieved is getting more interest in the externals from our guys and that always makes for more cohesive in game play. Likewise trying to "tell" on me to founders in other worlds was met with the respect it deserved where i was told, and i quote, "you are a bad, bad, boy lol"... We done with the mudslinging now? It's getting quite pathetic now
 
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