Player Spies. Your thoughts?

DeletedUser15493

Guest
To the original question:

It´s a war game, and so intel is most value information everyone tries to get.

Personally I don´t like it and it´s not my kind of playing.
Anyway I don´t judge anyone, as a leader I think you would not decline such info for your alliance. If there is someone spyin for my alliance I am not aware.

Be honest: You are a leader. If you have, let´s say 50 members in your alliance and a guy you know well offers himself as a spy, wouldn´t you do anything to lead your players to success?

Its like RL you can have good intentions and maybe, a little sense of honour, but temptations will be there and most likely you fall...

Anyway, I admire all the leaders that decline such way of playin!
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Personally, I think spies are (most of the time) a dirty way of getting Intel, and is dishonorable.

But, as many people have through out the game - not to mention this thread - this is a war game, and in wars, there are spies. And sadly, we can't do anything about it. Except watch what we say on public and alliance forums ;)
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
1.What do you think of players willing to spy on an alliance?

2.What do you think of Alliances & alliance leaders that attempt to plant player spies?

Please share advice for others on ways to prevent their alliance being infiltrated (SW)

I'm not on this world so don't care about the politics. in answer to your questions:

1. There are several brackets of spies.

Type 1
the lowest bracket is those running in fear from an attacker, may offer to spy against their alliance in return for a personal NAP. In this instance the player spying has admitted defeat, and is probably simming the game, and is much more of a solo player. Their loyalty is weak no matter who's alliance they are in. Very susceptible to disinformation.

Type 2
These spies know what they are doing, they have personal goals but show no loyalty to anyone apart from their own agenda. They are often much better players, but again susceptible to the ancient art of disinformation. They are also much more likely to out themselves looking for information, or acting erratically. They are driven by a desire for the type of political control you don't even get as a major alliance leader. They are often clever and strategic, but can become too clever.

Type 3
The Jack. Unlike type 2, they have motives and promises of power, they are better players than type 2 and generally have some decent leadership skills. They specialise in overthrowing leaderships, stealing members and getting into your council chambers. They are often extremely difficult to uncover, since their disguise is generally well planned by the sender. Type 3 spies that know their game rarely fail, and rely on a lack of reputation to be able to repeat the instance over and over again. These are people that pride themselves in their learning skills and adaptability, and often gain alot from the planning of the officer they work under. It is as much an RL learning experience as it is a game, and the skills will stand you in good stead for your next job interview.

Type 4
The external spy, normally a diplomat or negotiator outside an alliance that plants information into another alliance leadership for their own cause. Type 4 spies are right at the top end of the ability scale, they can generally outwitt 90% of the populace and have strongly persuasive abilities. You will never know they got the information out of your mouth, but they will convince you that they got it from someone else in your alliance. They will set you looking for a spy that is not there, and hence completely break down the trust relationship within your alliance, between your members and leadership, especially friends of those falsely accused.

2.The better question would be, what would you think of leaders who recruited your spies. I will tackle the following instances:

MRA's
every MRA in the game is littered with people's spies, most people are quiet happy to state that MRA's deserve to have spies to teach them a lesson in recruitment. So why plant a spy in an MRA? It is likely that most spies placed in MRA's are type 3 spies, designed to steal their good players so you can demolish the noobs quickly. It is an accepted practice throughout the game even by anti-spy players.

Practitioners of Propaganda Recruitment
Ever mailed an enemy alliance, with a join us or die message? Well I think that you should think again, often the most lethal spies are inserted by this method. Someone who was originally a type 2 spy may start showing the aspects of a type 3 due to the fact that he has a focus point of hate. Again I can share no sympathy for alliances that recieve spys through propaganda.

Merge Fail
Some merges fail, and players split between alliances. This generally gives you type 1 spies, players that were in the same alliance before still communicate. Their leaders receive the information, but the player that provided it, provided it unintentionally. This brings in the Player vs alliance loyalty argument, but most players will find they are more loyal to specific ingame friends than the alliances they are in, no matter of their feeling on the topic. You just have to get over that when a merge fails, then you may lose information to other alliances.

Allied Friends
This goes back to the above topic of player vs alliance priority. Leaders may keep tabs on an ally that is proving a little untrustworthy by using such arrangements between players. These will be originally type 1 spies (though again they will not be aware of it). However in the event of a betrayal they have the potential to become type 2 or type 3 spies, looking for revenge from a backstabbing incident.

So in order to answer about leaders and spies that plant them... the alliances they end up in are generally at fault for their presence. It is not, and never will be cheating, the ancient art of accurate disinformation nullifies most common spies, and it is up to leaders to implement the measures to deal with spies they recruited. "Survival of the Fittest" terms not just war, it also relates to the quote "You cannot attack what you cannot see", people that are fit enough to be invisible from the public eye have it on both sides, and at the end of the day will be the only survivers of the carnage of a war.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Way to kill a topic... by boring us to death! lol jk

No offense meant here, but sometimes you can say more with less.

You make some great points, but could have definitely conveyed your message with a far less "complicated" (lengthy) reply.

After all that effort, you completely disregard or overlook my comment to take this topic to another level beyond the cynical "there will always be spies and we should stoop down to their level and deceive them before they can deceive us."

...our argument is that it is morally wrong and gives a unearned advantage that doesn't depict one's skill or intellect, but deception. A quality not highly valued.

A battle won head on is more respected than a battle won through deception.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
i done spying before boys and it takes courage you must be willing to lose your city's for your team but i am a retired spy now and am loyal to my alliance
 

DeletedUser

Guest
What do you think of players willing to spy on an alliance?

What do you think of Alliances & alliance leaders that attempt to plant player spies?

Please share advice for others on ways to prevent their alliance being infiltrated (SW)[/QUOTE]

i look at them as cowards and lowlifes.in the rl if you are caught as a spy.you are kill on the spot.

sad ,that an alliance leader don;t have the integrity to win this game with honor.


defense against them,play well with your members.where it don't matter.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
to stop there alliances you do backround checks and ask there last alliance if they loyal or not thats why at the start of the world there were so many spies every where
 

DeletedUser

Guest
if you ever need any info or any tips on spying contact me
I'll pass thanks kiddo. I play to win a game the way it is designed. Twisting the gameplay with underhand tactics aint my style.
Its not a new idea either - it being going on for years in many games - always against objections of the decent players.
People will always try to cheat in games when they lack the skill to win fairly and I see spying as a form of cheating.

Shadow Strike need to keep an eye on this one.:rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
In the past we have had players offering to spy for us (you know who you are) and we have found they are nothing but trouble, and have offered to spy for the alliance they set out to spy on to begin with -double agent-
They then sit back and watch the alliances go to war.
We now have a no spy policy.

basicly trouble makers!!! just in my opinion.

Regards
robert
 

DeletedUser

Guest
there is some good advice about preventing spies in here =)
people are interested in this subject ...

I would suggest encouraging members to report any contact they have related to spying or sharing information, a topic in alliance forum is good. often a player approached will assume they are the only one. promote honour and fair play in your alliance and recruitment policies


you posted a quote and a 4 letter reply? - Dont spam my topic please. - if you have nothing to say then dont reply at all
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Greetings Zeta,

My name is Murty from Delta, firstly let me apologize for posting in your forum but this is a topic which I just could not pass by. For I myself have done this very deed and I thought I might be able to shed some light on why these acts maybe carried out by the people within your ranks. Apart from the obvious factors such as fear (perhaps you are fighting an alliance you just can't beat), greed or just been a noob.

My old alliance were ranked third in Delta and we were attacked by 6 alliances at once ranking 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, and 9. So as you may guess the odds were stacked against us, when I questioned why these alliances were attacking us they told me it was to do with diplomacy. However at the time I was the diplomat of my alliance so I new there had been no break down in diplomatic relations with 5 of the 6 alliance. This was purely opportunist taking advantage of a situation to take out an alliance whom they feared. After all that is the nature of the game we play.

The war was bloody and attacks were nonstop the higher ranked officers had around 75 attacks a day heading our way and it wasn't long before I watched the players I had worked so hard to build an alliance with fall one by one. I in some ways was lucky as I had a lot of personal friends in the enemy ranks and some of them lent me support even sometimes supporting my cities against their own members attacks. My alliance fell fast the lower ranking player fled like rats from a sinking ship. My friends lost their cities and gave up, I on the other hand was offered a place in 3 of the 6 alliances who had attacked us.

As far as I was concerned my war was no where near over, these people had took everything I had enjoyed in this game from me. So I joined one of the alliances and in the first hour I had made a point of contact with another enemy of theirs. I pasted them information on planed attacks and what time zone the members were in so they'd know when they were sleeping and when to attack (by the way that introduction tab you have in your forum is a big mistake) . It wasn't long before that alliance weakened and merged with another who had attacked us. As soon as the merger happened I done the exact same thing. Sadly I had some very serious RL stuff to deal with and couldn't log on for a few months. When I did come back my cities had been eaten up by the alliance. I now play with this account with the one of the six alliances who I feel had an actual reason to attack us, the same alliance who support my cities against attacks. I no longer spy obviously as I would hardly write this if I was.

So my friends my point is this you will never be able to finishing player spies in this game but there are things you can do to cut down the risk. Sometimes we tend to forget that we play this game with and against real people. So you should always try to be fair and show respect to your fellow gamer if he is in your alliance or not. The less you piss people off in the game the smoother things will run and for god sake if you do rip off an alliances don't let the survivors join you later. If its a fair war its one thing but to do to an alliance what was done to mine and then let a player join you that's just asking for trouble.

Regards,
Murty.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
No problem Murty your aloud here when ever you think you can make a post that good, anyways well posted i totally think everything is right, this is usually fact when it comes to spying.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
when the pressure is on what do players like these do?:
Dambo
fazedoc
Albano90
The Original Architect

Cheat, thats what..... yes cheating again in grep and I include the people that share the raw spy intel as the cheats. because you deliberately seek out and plant spy players (also known as gaming scum) to get an advantage
If this is how you win boys I feel sorry for you.

Since making a topic and looking into this subject in greater detail.
I can tell you it is rife and ruining grepolis... making alliances and the team forums they are provided with useless.

I implore Grepolis staff to speak to the community here about this issue, perhaps tell us if external forum links can be added into alliance profiles?

or can something be done about alliance changes and staff able to check for this cheating behaviour and find a way to stop or limit it. it really is starting to damage grep and that will eventually hit player numbers and profit
Grepolis staff (devs) know there is this BIG problem with their game

http://wiki.en.grepolis.com/wiki/Alliance#Spying


but in the help info you guyz play it down far too much. its a bigger problem than that... much bigger.
grepolis is becoming known for it and my search of reviews and blogs on Grepolis reveals the same. its starting to get mentioned in places that will hit innogamez in the pocket. :(
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
don't get it what u mean ? 2 of ur members contacted me and told me that they can't stand that arrogant zordas and they accept to be spies :) lol and u have spy in NSPG so u r cheating too ? also LC has spies in few alliances they r cheating too , DCS have spies too so every1 is cheating as u r saying lol
 

DeletedUser

Guest
you have been proven to be active in this cheating dambo.

your word is mud on the subject.

DCS leaders can confirm that intel coming out of NSPG is all from players that want out or are sooooo upset with OA.
SP never had a player planted and working for us and never will.

that is how YOU and your cronies play grep, not us.

the two players you speak of Lisarus and Askubala are sh1t players, never contributing, never even speaking to anyone - simmers & loners.
As they got asked in gradually louder voices by all their leaders to play as a team they got "upset" *hands a tissue* and wanted to join an alliance that would let them sim their own game solo and support them with nothing given back (ever) ... so they joined an alliance as corrupt and prone to cheating as they are .... that would be your LBE wouldnt it?
 

DeletedUser5757

Guest
personally i dont really like spying,
but when your outnumbered, you sometimes have to to get jsut that advantage to win :cool:
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
heh then LB hadn't got any spies in spartiates. I just was using info that ur hater gave me . ok u can add to that list LC and DCS .
 

DeletedUser12571

Guest
-Thread Reopened-

Please stay on topic. Discuss whether you deem spies honourable or not, and provide reasons. Do not make it personal.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
the standard of player that decides to start forum spying and cheating for advantage, *shudder* is the same standard of gamers that are being banned all the time from the game, and the same kind that message malicious mails and generally behave like online thugs.

players we are better off without in our game folks.



there is still more to be said on this subject and more players in zeta Who I could name that are playing this kind of game.
I hope with the ignominious exit of two of the worst offenders who are now banned [and who shall remain nameless here - msg me if interested], some corrupted players in our decent server will turn away from the players who are cheating, the dishonest people that are playing a shady version of grep that is against the spirit of the game.

if YOU know someone in your alliance is playing the game like this YOU can speak or act against it.
Honest and fair players of ZETA UNITE :pro: against cheating and forum spying !

edit/
Input from anyone welcome but,
::any troll or spam reply here will be flagged for delete, dont try to get my topic locked thx::
 
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DeletedUser5757

Guest
i think there should be a clear difference between getting someone to join the alliance you wish to spy, and having someone in the other alliance that wants to spy for you.......

but, by suggesting that getting intel from spies is cheating, that would make anyone who gets intel a cheat, wethever they asked for it or not, so that is not right :cool:

but i rather not use it myself, unless at the uthermost need against players that do things against me that aren't fair :pro:
 
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