Pnp Stay Delusional

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Are we still on that? We were not helping SC we were were initially attacked. That only happened after you started a war. I don't even know what private thoughts you could mean, my only thoughts leading up to the conflict were about whether my next city should be LS or Bir, SC never even enter the equation. We were attacked, we were outnumbered, we did what we could to effectively put up a fight. Apparently the correct tactic, according to you guys, was to just accept the attacks and hope you'd get bored eventually. A group with literally 10x as many members, all active, declares war on us and we are supposed to just sit there and hope that they don't use their superior numbers against us. :rolleyes: Shame on us for figuring out that 126 vs 18 is a no-win scenario. How absolutely terrible of us for hoping to even the odds just a little bit by seeking out assistance. Tell me which 7 people I was supposed to fight all by myself, I mean that's a fair fight. Trying to coordinate with other people was just foolish, surely 18 guys can take on the entire Tripartite without a single iota of assistance.

I got it, you pick a fight, your opponent then fights back the best they can, so it's their fault they got attacked. Understood.

Having a pact with another alliance is a serious matter. It means you accept all their fights as your own. Why on earth would any sane person choose to fight the entire world for absolutely no benefit to themselves? A pact with SC means war with how many other groups? We have no interest in such insanity. And yes, not having a pact meant we did get a few attacks from them. Did we just accept this? No, they were told if it kept happening then we will have no choice but to go to war with them as well. And let's not kid ourselves, we could be in war with SC right now and OV would find some excuse to still continue the war with us. Most other groups have easily been able to understand this concept, I am not sure why you guys are having trouble with it. Language barrier maybe, you seem to read and write English well enough, but looks can be deceiving I guess.

@Coxwana I never asked for an apology. I asked for honesty. You are being honest, and I respect that. I just point out that we were already right in the middle of SC's core, and wanted to be on your team. The war could have been over a long time ago.


You keep contradicting yourself. You're not helping SC but you're "coordinating" with them. We get it you have a pact but you don't want to call it a pact because you the like the idea of looking no diplomacy, but in reality you can't go rambo on the world and need help. You also keep arguing that you want to fight SC, but we keep telling you that we were told otherwise. Like I said, I flat out told 13th's leader to pick a side of the fence, fall on it, ad let me know. He didn't do that. Now I offered an olive branch and you seemed willing, however due to trust issues from last time, we decided that it won't be happening anytime soon. And being honest, we can't even get a non-contradictory answer out of you here so I can see why there's an issue of trust.

What? All active? TT literally spent the month of march weeding out internals. I'm not kidding we just got our slots back this week mostly. To top it off, both TT and Rejects are on the other side of the ocean from OV. You also hug that side line, by the time our supports would show up, the siege is usually put away good. Not sure how we're a huge factor because if you can't break it in the first 8 hours, you won't break it in the last 4 probably. I actually can think of 18 players that would give us+ OSG+ SC a run for our money. Again not really seeing the logic here, you could make it work if you played right.

You're preaching to a group of leaders that at one point or another, sometimes together, have all fought the entire world with relative success. So sorry if the point is lost on us. I'm not trying to be mean or rude to you, you do seem like a decent guy, but there's still an issue of trust present and honestly based on your posts, you're not helping make the case for 13th.


You say oh. I say wow. There will always be a difference of opinion on how it went. You and your alliance pay for the actions of your predecessor. You weren't there so you wouldn't know. Just because you in charge, doesn't change a thing. That's how it is. We have the screen shots of your team supporting sieges against us and breaking our sieges and it wasn't just 1 person so playing the holier than though card is garbage. Your alliance CHOSE to assist even when no apparent formal deal was struck. That's on your guys. We will not turn around now and join forces with previous foes. Bad blood and all that. As for the English insults, please. I come from an English speaking country and am a successful businessman who is well educated so the jibes are unappreciated. Fact is you now see yourself in a position where you need an "out" and see us as it yet we've had to witness you assisting our enemy. We can't see past it as it's seen by us as treachery. As Kitten said, We are both founders of our alliances. We are not the only founders/leaders in our alliances and we discussed 13th joining us at length among us all and STILL couldn't see past the distrust. So blame your predecessor, blame the universe, blame your 3rd grade teacher. Makes no difference to the outcome. See you on the battle field.


As a confused outsider spectator to this seemingly pointless debate may I just suggest the obvious - 13th why don't you just go join SC or pact with them? I can't imagine it is fun being sandwiched.

Once the trust is broken as it obviously is here, people will find reasons to distrust you whether you deserve it or not. I don't seem to understand what you will gain from this argument - OV to suddenly say 'oh well, they are nice guys after all, come in...."

You can then let your troops do the talking rather than these circuitous claim and counter claim thing that your doing here :)

Just my two cents - will get back in my box


As for the English insults, please. I come from an English speaking country and am a successful businessman who is well educated so the jibes are unappreciated.
If you took my comment as an insult, I am sorry, it was not intended as such. I know that a lot of the miscommunication issues we suffered early on were due to multiple different native languages trying to communicate. It is frustrating to try to communicate an idea, and have it misunderstood repeatedly.

You keep contradicting yourself. You're not helping SC but you're "coordinating" with them.
This is the frustrating part. I thought I was clear on the subject, but it keeps getting all skewed. I did not contradict myself, I was talking about two separate periods in time. We were not supporting SC in any way, nor did we have any intention of supporting SC. We were fully prepared and getting ready to fight SC, as we were attempting to merge with a faction that was already fighting them. <---- That is the beginning of all this. This is the point that OV declared war on us and began it's initial wave of attacks.] Those initial attacks made clear the difference in numbers. For every person we had on the newly opened front line, you had 4. All of them active, all of them skilled. And romanvv is basically 3 people the way he plays (guy has our respect). At this period in time we were not coordinating, cooperating, or supporting SC in any way, shape, or form. From what I can tell, war as declared on us over some kind of miscommunication.

Now we move on to the second period of time, a couple days after the initial attacks. -----> The vast differences in numbers has been very obvious, and is hard to deal with. It has required perfect and redundant sniping attempts to kill a CS before support can arrive, or the city is lost. We have had success doing this, killed 4/5 CS in this way. 4 vs 1 is a major disadvantage, and in the long-term unsustainable unless something drastic changes. It is at this point that we start looking for assistance. Something to even the odds at least a little. At this time we begin coordinating with other alliances that are also fighting the same people. A pact is discussed, but we would be required to also fight Winners, which we have good relations with. Fighting a war on two fronts, against opponents we never wanted, allied to a group we never wanted to be allied with seems... a bitter pill to swallow. After talking with Winners we declined a pact with SC. This decision was both to prevent war with Winners, but also because we did not wish to be inexorably tied to SC and their group. At this time we coordinate (you can say support, same thing) all war efforts against OV. We did not choose the conflict, but we intend to fight back as effectively as we can. This is hindered by attacks by SC, whether they were trying to force us to merge into them or they are just really that bad of neighbors, I cannot say. There is a general discontent with the situation, as everything we had wanted is now turned upside down.

It was discussed that if we stopped working with SC, maybe we could work things out with OV. Lazyos informed us that OV did not trust us, and if we stopped working with SC then we would likely find ourselves fighting both OV and SC. Clearly that would an absolutely strategic nightmare. Lazyos was supposed to approach Winners with a solution, we extract ourselves from the conflict entirely and pact with Winners. That gets us out of the completely ridiculous situation we were in, and leaves us fighting one opponent, SC. This is clearly a better situation for us. Problem is, Lazyos goes with a solution, and comes back with a war... again. At this point I stepped up and said no, this is stupid. I will do the talking, something has got to change. I talked to Winners, all hostilities are ended, it looks like a pact with them is likely. We are once again back on track. A few days later we are informed that a pact is no likely, it has been derailed by OV who seem determined to keep us in the conflict for some unknown reason.

I then approach OV to try and find out what exactly we are even fighting about. At this time Lazyos is stepping down from his roles and preparing to leave the world. I had, what I thought, was a pleasant and productive conversation with MissusR. Towards the end of the discussion it begins to feel like it doesn't matter what I say, conflict is unavoidable. At this point we feel completely stuck in the absurd position we have found ourselves in for weeks. Absolutely no idea how to change the situation, members leave, they had no intention on continuing to be meat-shields for SC. New worlds are opening that are faster, and that is more desirable.

I did not come here to remedy this situation, as I did not think that was likely. I came here to try and salvage our reputation. We never betrayed anyone. We have never been treacherous. We never lied, we never back-stabbed anyone. This was never anything we asked for, or chose.


Can we start making this more concise? I CBA to read all that when it says the same things, man.


Typhonous -

you say you have had no pacts in place and therefore caused no treachery. i understand that pov. however, working with someone's enemy, even for your own protection, may be considered an act of betrayal during a pact negotiation. for the sake of argument, consider how OV and TT might see another side. (pls pls don't give me the timeline again. if i'm wrong, just skip it.)

additionally, it seems your previous leader may have made promises to ppl and not told you everything. while that is not your fault and you may have been unaware, it does make 13th look bad.

this pnp was written to call out SC not your alliance. (dan will correct me if i'm wrong.) so, there was no reason for you to so vigorously defend your honor and keep defending a pm of leader who was asked to step down.

jmo. now, just like richie, going to return to my box.


So guess Stay Cool members gonna start applying to other alliances with leadership & Soho gone but will Tripartite take them in


Yup it looks like Stay Cool's time as a major power is about over...


We heard rumors that MW might be allying SC. Though I can't confirm it, I figured i'd throw you guys in. You know, just in case you were talking. Maybe you'd pick up the hint. :)


First I heard of this we currently have a NAP so we can get a few players to found a little core near (Winners). For a better fight. Their players Near O66/65 are showing poor efforts into Siege breaking and for their Size. If you want anything confirmed Dan contact me Personally lol.