Taxes

[DeletedUser]

Hey all,

I'm one of the leaders of The Imperium, a powerful alliance in World Alpha. We've just introduced taxes to help our Army (members who specifically train lots of troops and attack and defend targets specified by the Army General and Lieutenant General) maintain their troops.

We had an open vote, and the vote for "Yes" passed by a single vote. Yes, it was that close. So I'm now wondering if anyone else has introduced taxes in their alliance, and how it's working for them.

Also, I'd just like to hear anyone's thoughts on this. I've never heard of taxes in Grepolis before, but I only play on Alpha so I wouldn't know in other worlds.

I'd just like to clarify a few points about our tax system before everyone spams me with "OMG how can you justify taking our resources"

1. Only players with 1500 points or more, and who are not members of
- The Armed Forces (Army, Navy, SAS)
- The Diplomatic Corps
- The Recruitment Corps
- Forum Moderators
- Activity Monitors
- Tax Collectors
- and those who hold honourary titles such as Baron

2. The taxes are 100 of each resource per city you own per week in peacetime. If a major war is declared, taxes are upped to 500 per resource per city you own per week.

3. Taxes are paid every Sunday to the nearest designated tax collector. The tax collector then redistributes the resources to soldiers in his area.

4. If you miss a tax payment without telling the tax collector that you will be missing it, and provide an acceptable reason (Not able to access the internet on tax day, etc) you will be given a warning. Three warnings will get you kicked out of the alliance.


Now, I'll open the floor to intelligent questions and observations.

James of Thermoplae

 

[DeletedUser]

Hmm...

Interesting... Out of curiosity, were those exempt from taxes the majority of those who voted pro taxes and those who voted against taxes those who would be affected?

As 500 of each resource each week really isn't that much, does it make that big of a difference? Who exactly gets the redistributed resources? Doesn't everyone provide troops in a war?

I would demand taxes of the other people not in my alliance around me! And I if the taxes seem effective, I would propose to higher them! Unless I was the one paying them!

 

[DeletedUser]

Not a bad idea I suppose but one observation :

Surely you need to be supporting your 'smaller' members. For an active player >1500 pts, resources would be scarce at the least of times. Taking away resources from him might hinder his growth, and you would see less development in your smaller members. This isn't great for the long-term. Sorry if I misunderstood your system, but thats the impression I got.

 

[DeletedUser]

Wow. Making an alliance pay for war That is very stupid in my opinion! Your like Athens, taking all the money from the alliance and using for own personal gain! That'll get you more members. IF YOU WANT RESOURCES THEN WHY DON'T YOU ACTUALLY FARM ENEMIES!

 

[DeletedUser]

yup jarp has a point here , kill the men , steal the women , take home the booty , btw 10x for leting all grepoli know that ur alliance has only a limited number of offensive players , your enemies will like that

 

[DeletedUser]

I figure it is annoying to redistribute 500 resources each per person.
What if you have 30 or 40 cities all sending resources to one city the max that you can funnel with a city is 15k resources. There are flow issues involved.
Resources should be voluntarily given to those in need anyway. What sort of alliance do you live in that you need to demand resources? Anyway troops are more valuable than the resources. You are tying up peoples markets and time spent organising this "tax"

Also you have a very long list of people exempt from this tax.

1. Only players with 1500 points or more, and who are not members of
- The Armed Forces (Army, Navy, SAS)
- The Diplomatic Corps
- The Recruitment Corps
- Forum Moderators
- Activity Monitors
- Tax Collectors
- and those who hold honourary titles such as Baron

Anyone in your army I take it? So if they are not over 1500 points and do not have an army to use then who are you taking? people with 1500 to 5000 points? People who want resources to make CS's?

 

[DeletedUser]

an alliance that has to function on demanding resources from its members in my opinion is not realy an alliance- alliance members should be willing to help each other, and as jacko0 sais taking away resources from those that need to grow is a bad idea

 

[DeletedUser]

sorry for the double post but may I ask how you collect taxes of those players who do not have a market?

 

[DeletedUser]

So basically, this is a way to exploit the lesser players in your alliance? Lol why not get everyone to build troops rather than 'army people' isn't that the point of the game. I'd rather have attacking or defensive support rather than 500 wood. Interesting idea although I have no idea why anyone outside of those receiving would vote for it... As stated it's not the largest amount of resources in the world. If you upped the amount it might be effective but then the soldier argument kicks in

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't think I got the point across properly. Trevalyn, the reason so many are exempt is because they are already contributing to the alliance. The point of this tax is not actually to get resources; it is to encourage players to properly contribute to the alliance.
Rockhound, that is not the case. If we are attacked, then everyone is expected to help. And if we think that we will need everyone for an attack, then that is the order that will be given. The point of our armed forces is that they follow orders all the time; they attack almost exclusively targets given to them by the General/Admiral/Commander. They colonise or conquer where we want them to.
Hads, the point is that the ratio of soldiers to civilians is still probably about 3 civvies for each soldier. Therefore, each soldier will be receiving around 2-3k of each resource every week, letting them build up powerful armies. We like to have concentrated bases of forces so that it is easier to coordinate movements.
dked, unfortunately there is no real answer to that. We kind of have to hope that by the time they reach 1500 points they either have a market, or have joined something that makes them exempt from taxes. I mean, a market doesn't take all that long to build. I got one in my second city when it was on... around 1600 points, I think. And then that only takes a day or two to get to level 10. As for your original comment, the point of this tax is not the resources; it is the contribution. We have provided plenty of ways to avoid paying them, because we are demanding one thing and one thing only: commitment and contribution.
bendo, the idea to introduce taxes was made by a member who would have had to pay them, had I not decided he should be a tax collector. Several other members who now have to pay their taxes also argued in favour of them. Interestingly, only perhaps one person actually argued against them, despite many voting against.
jarpenguin, maybe we're just nice guys.
Jacko0, I realise that this could hinder players, which is why individual taxes are so low. In peacetime, which is any time when we're not under severe and consistent attack or fighting a meaningful offensive, taxes are only 100 a week. That takes maybe 20 minutes of farming the little villages? It's not gonna hinder them that much, I'm sure.

 

[DeletedUser]

I mean, a market doesn't take all that long to build. I got one in my second city when it was on... around 1600 points, I think.

Well gents i think this explains alot , good luck on colonising the anchors leave the real citys for us

In peacetime, which is any time when we're not under severe and consistent attack or fighting a meaningful offensive, taxes are only 100 a week. That takes maybe 20 minutes of farming the little villages? It's not gonna hinder them that much, I'm sure.

20 minute farm run yeilds 6k in resources , but i gues u guys dont know that thats why u are using the TAX sistem which is outrageous to be frank

 

[DeletedUser1359]

sorry to say this but an idea of a tax system is utterly useless.

If your alliance members need that much help to gather resourses then I would suggest getting another alliance!!

 

[DeletedUser]

What I dont understand is who are the beneficiaries in peace time for these resources you are channeling?

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't play on Alpha, so I'm unaware of the alliances there. This does sound like a MRA tactic.

In the payment of 'taxes', simcity players are now exempt from the need to train troops! Others that they sponsor will provide them when needed.

 

[DeletedUser]

What if you have 100000 members! YOU WILL BE RICH! Thank you Rockhound for extending my point.

 

[DeletedUser]

the point of this tax is not the resources; it is the contribution.

I'm sorry but to me it sounds as though the point of your tax is to demand resoruces. now correct me if I'm wrong please but as far as im aware the definitiopn of tax is "A charge imposed by a government on a service, product, or activity in order to raise revenue. Tax can be levied on business or personal income." now as revenue is another name for profits it seems to me as though you are levvynig this for the resources and not the contribution.

 

[DeletedUser]

While I disagree with the concept, I understand the reasoning behind it. In this case the taxes are meant as a sort of social engineering tool. Such as cigarette taxes in the US. While they do raise a certain amount of revenue, the main goal behind them is induce people to quit smoking by making it too expensive. In James' case the idea is to modify the behavior of passive players to become more involved in the defense, or other administrative tasks, of the alliance; thereby relieving them of the tax burden.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you have more than 60 members in your alliance who could be taxxed...

Where would you keep all of that? I mean the warehouse size...

 

[Aicy]

I don't think I got the point across properly. Trevalyn, the reason so many are exempt is because they are already contributing to the alliance. The point of this tax is not actually to get resources; it is to encourage players to properly contribute to the alliance.
Yeah, that kinda works but I would think I'd feel less inclined to contribute to the alliance if they had some silly tax which I had to organize every week, in fact, I'd most likely leave said alliance.
Rockhound, that is not the case. If we are attacked, then everyone is expected to help. And if we think that we will need everyone for an attack, then that is the order that will be given. The point of our armed forces is that they follow orders all the time; they attack almost exclusively targets given to them by the General/Admiral/Commander. They colonise or conquer where we want them to.
So they get their resources taken away from them for other players to build troops with, yet you still make them fight?
Oh, and I love how you said "They colonise or conquer" in your last sentance. If they were really Armed then they wouldn't colonize.
Hads, the point is that the ratio of soldiers to civilians is still probably about 3 civvies for each soldier. Therefore, each soldier will be receiving around 2-3k of each resource every week, letting them build up powerful armies. We like to have concentrated bases of forces so that it is easier to coordinate movements.
I'm not quite sure if you even play this game, to be honest. 2-3k resources every week is nothing and saying that lets people build up powerful armys is ridiculous. Every day, a active player would spend a hour or two raising all their 8 farming villages to 100% strength and then looting 6005 resources from each. That's 48,000 resources all together in a day, and 340,000 resources in a week compared to your 2-3k resources.
dked, unfortunately there is no real answer to that. We kind of have to hope that by the time they reach 1500 points they either have a market, or have joined something that makes them exempt from taxes. I mean, a market doesn't take all that long to build. I got one in my second city when it was on... around 1600 points, I think. And then that only takes a day or two to get to level 10.
As mentioned before, your simcity playstyle doesn't seem fit for a leader. I know no other experianced players who build their marketplace so early in their city stages.
As for your original comment, the point of this tax is not the resources; it is the contribution. We have provided plenty of ways to avoid paying them, because we are demanding one thing and one thing only: commitment and contribution.
Notice how you used the word demanding.
bendo, the idea to introduce taxes was made by a member who would have had to pay them, had I not decided he should be a tax collector.
I come up with random ideas like this all the time, ask the leaders of Time Warp they'll know. I always put them up in the council sub-fourm, and 9/10 of the time we vote against it because... it's just a idea and like this, wouldn't actually work that well when put into place. When I do that I'm just putting them out there, and I'm guessing this person was doing the same kind of thing, most leaders would have voted against such a suggestion.
Several other members who now have to pay their taxes also argued in favour of them. Interestingly, only perhaps one person actually argued against them, despite many voting against.
Deletion of posts, maybe?
jarpenguin, maybe we're just nice guys.
I can tell... however, this is a war game.
Jacko0, I realise that this could hinder players, which is why individual taxes are so low. In peacetime, which is any time when we're not under severe and consistent attack or fighting a meaningful offensive, taxes are only 100 a week. That takes maybe 20 minutes of farming the little villages? It's not gonna hinder them that much, I'm sure.
Yet again, do you not know anything about this game? In 20 minutes I can get 3 farming villages strengthened to 100% strength and then looted for a total of 18k resources.

Replies in bold.

 

[Aicy]

Sorry for all the personal insults and such, I just felt like a needed a good internet argument. xD

However, since I got no reply it seems that's something I won't be getting.