The Right to Life

the bilingual poet

Guest
One killing his or her self is just as bad as killing another. Nobody has the right to end someone else without a valid reason.
So you're saying that we can play God. That we can decide whether someone should live or die, independently of any particular choice.
Deciding that you yourself should live is human nature, beyond that, what right do you have?

You cannot force someone to live if they themselves don't want to.
 
What you're saying is contradicting what you've already said: that any life is better than none.

In that alone, you are judging those who wish to end their own lives. Yet you say that we don't have the right to do so.
Well I judge everyone but that's a different issue.

There is a huge difference between preventing a being from ever experiencing life and ending a life.

So you're saying that we can play God. That we can decide whether someone should live or die, independently of any particular choice.
Deciding that you yourself should live is human nature, beyond that, what right do you have?

You cannot force someone to live if they themselves don't want to.
Two things here. First we play god all the time. It's rather fun.
Second, all fig said is murder is always wrong lol.
 
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figtree2

Polemarch
So you're saying that we can play God. That we can decide whether someone should live or die, independently of any particular choice.
Deciding that you yourself should live is human nature, beyond that, what right do you have?

You cannot force someone to live if they themselves don't want to.
The only time a person has the right to end someone else is if the person is killing people and is a threat to everyone.
 

Joseph Nieves

Strategos
Just my first thoughts when reading some of the post I see saying that a fetus doesn't have the right to live.

Actually, isn't the question whether we should consider a foetus as a human being? As opposed to the current definition, which is the following: At common law, a fetus was not a human being. Life began when the fetus passed through the vagina and took its first breath. - Wikipedia

Therefore, the state-sanctified killing of criminals, who ARE human beings, no matter how you look at it, is no better.
My question to you would be what has the fetus done wrong? Since we are comparing a fetus to mass murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc, what has it done to intentionally harm the life of another person? The killing of criminals could be justified but can the same really be said about a fetus?

Everything we do is ending POTENTIAL life ^^ A war can end millions of potential lives, just as many real ones, AND is not an act of whatever god you may choose to believe in. And yet we sanctify it? How can we justify so many deaths?

How do you justify the castle doctrine? This guy is breaking into my house! Bang. Now he isn't.

That fetus isn't wanted, why force it to come into a world just to be cast aside? Why force the mother to bear a responsibility she may not have asked for, may have even gone out of her way to avoid? Especially in the case of rape victims: would you force the poor woman who is scarred for life to look on the face of her assailant for the rest of it?

An unhappy family makes for an unhappy child. A child should be a gift, wanted dearly by the parents, loved.

Otherwise, it is a curse for all involved.
Depends on the war honestly. Some had no good purpose and others were necessary as to prevent even more lives from dying. For ex: Having the Nazis killed can be justified when they were attempting to take over the world and destroy the "inferior race".

Actually it can be argued the fetus is the inferior race. It is looked down upon because it is not yet its strongest and people think that makes it ok to kill them. I am sure the Nazis had the same mentality during the Holocaust.

As for castle doctrine, lets just think about it. Are we going to let someone else take our life away without fighting back to protect ourselves? The answer is no. People don't break in just to say hello, they do it to commit a crime. Whether it is to kidnap a person, rape them, steal from them, or kill them. The only way it couldn't be justified is if the person wasn't breaking in, but that wasn't the scenario that you gave.

If it isn't wanted, then a man and a woman should not have had sex. No one can be surprised if the way to reproduce results in guess what...having a baby (I know big surprise) :D Plenty of other ways to entertain yourself or show love to your partner that don't result in pregnancy. It just isn't a valid excuse. It is like people eating fast food every day and not exercising, then saying they don't want to be fat and have no clue how it happened. The person knew what was going to happen but refused to accept the results of the action.

First off less than one percent of abortions are because of rape or incest. Hard to think of anything else legal that was designed for less than 1% of the people it affects. Second according to a study on pregnant rape victims 75-85% chose against having an abortion. Small sample size (37 women) but really there are no other studies I could find. Here are some reason the study gave as to why these women did not wish to have an abortion:

Several reasons are given for not aborting. First, approximately 70 percent of all women believe abortion is immoral, even though many also feel it should be a legal choice for others. Approximately the same percentage of pregnant rape victims believe abortion would be just another act of violence perpetrated against their bodies and their children.

Second, some believe that their child's life may have some intrinsic meaning or purpose which they do not yet understand. This child was brought into their lives by a horrible, repulsive act. But perhaps God, or fate, will use the child for some greater purpose. Good can come from evil.

Third, victims of assault often become introspective. Their sense of the value of life and respect for others is heightened. They have been victimized, and the thought that they in turn might victimize their own innocent child through abortion is repulsive.

Fourth, at least at a subconscious level, the victim may sense that if she can get through the pregnancy, she will have conquered the rape. By giving birth, she can reclaim some of her lost self-esteem. Giving birth, especially when conception was not desired, is a totally selfless act, a generous act, a display of courage, strength and honor. It is proof that she is better than the rapist. While he was selfish, she can be generous. While he was destroying, she can be nurturing.
Source: Mahkorn, "Pregnancy and Sexual Assault," The Psychological Aspects of Abortion, eds. Mall & Watts, (Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 55-69.

So who is to say that abortion will lessen the scar as oppose to making it deeper?

Going back to the fetus not being wanted: Who is to say the fetus isn't wanted? Only 40% of unintended pregnancies in the US end with abortions. In China parents can only have one child, or two if one of the parents is an only child. Is that fair to those families, that abortion is not an option but is mandatory? What about homosexual couples that want children but can't reproduce themselves? Them and many other couples who can't have kids would happily adopt children. The other things is that people make mistakes or change their mind. Some parent(s) see the child and decide they want to keep it. If they are on the operating table having an abortion it is to late for them to turn back, but if they gave birth they could keep the baby if they wish to do so.

Sure, because there's a real shortage of kids in orphanages, let's get more of them... It's no skin off your nose, right?
I don't know how many people who were raised in care can say that it was a happy childhood, but surely not that many. Especially when you grow up realising that your mum just didn't want you. It's one thing to put a child into care because his parents died, it's another thing entirely if they're still alive.

I'm not sure how you can call that "sparing" a child.
Allowing anyone to live is sparing them. Didn't you say a few post back that criminals should not have to face the death penalty? In that case why should a fetus face the death penalty? No one can make the choice of determining the life of the child. While some might think they are having a tough life they could very well be enjoying it. Who has never felt pain before? To say that someone shouldn't live because they might experience pain is a poor reason to execute someone. In that case kill everyone so they don't have to suffer from living on this cruel Earth :rolleyes:
 
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figtree2

Polemarch
Just my first thoughts when reading some of the post I see saying that a fetus doesn't have the right to live.



My question to you would be what has the fetus done wrong? Since we are comparing a fetus to mass murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc, what has it done to intentionally harm the life of another person? The killing of criminals could be justified but can the same really be said about a fetus?



Depends on the war honestly. Some had no good purpose and others were necessary as to prevent even more lives from dying. For ex: Having the Nazis killed can be justified when they were attempting to take over the world and destroy the "inferior race".

Actually it can be argued the fetus is the inferior race. It is looked down upon because it is not yet its strongest and people think that makes it ok to kill them. I am sure the Nazis had the same mentality during the Holocaust.

As for castle doctrine, lets just think about it. Are we going to let someone else take our life away without fighting back to protect ourselves? The answer is no. People don't break in just to say hello, they do it to commit a crime. Whether it is to kidnap a person, rape them, steal from them, or kill them. The only way it couldn't be justified is if the person wasn't breaking in, but that wasn't the scenario that you gave.

If it isn't wanted, then a man and a woman should not have had sex. No one can be surprised if the way to reproduce results in guess what...having a baby (I know big surprise) :D Plenty of other ways to entertain yourself or show love to your partner that don't result in pregnancy. It just isn't a valid excuse. It is like people eating fast food every day and not exercising, then saying they don't want to be fat and have no clue how it happened. The person knew what was going to happen but refused to accept the results of the action.

First off less than one percent of abortions are because of rape or incest. Hard to think of anything else legal that was designed for less than 1% of the people it affects. Second according to a study on pregnant rape victims 75-85% chose against having an abortion. Small sample size (37 women) but really there are no other studies I could find. Here are some reason the study gave as to why these women did not wish to have an abortion:


Source: Mahkorn, "Pregnancy and Sexual Assault," The Psychological Aspects of Abortion, eds. Mall & Watts, (Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 55-69.

So who is to say that abortion will lessen the scar as oppose to making it deeper?

Going back to the fetus not being wanted: Who is to say the fetus isn't wanted? Only 40% of unintended pregnancies in the US end with abortions. In China parents can only have one child, or two if one of the parents is an only child. Is that fair to those families, that abortion is not an option but is mandatory? What about homosexual couples that want children but can't reproduce themselves? Them and many other couples who can't have kids would happily adopt children. The other things is that people make mistakes or change their mind. Some parent(s) see the child and decide they want to keep it. If they are on the operating table having an abortion it is to late for them to turn back, but if they gave birth they could keep the baby if they wish to do so.



Allowing anyone to live is sparing them. Didn't you say a few post back that criminals should not have to face the death penalty? In that case why should a fetus face the death penalty? No one can make the choice of determining the life of the child. While some might think they are having a tough life they could very well be enjoying it. Who has never felt pain before? To say that someone shouldn't live because they might experience pain is a poor reason to execute someone. In that case kill everyone so they don't have to suffer from living on this cruel Earth :rolleyes:
I agree with this. Why would anyone kill the fetus and give in to fear?