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[DeletedUser]

Sons of odin are number 1 because they're expect simmers.. Keep making pacts you need more.... One thing you should take note of is don't make the same mistake our past enemy's have don't declare victory until you have already won

 

[DeletedUser48582]

Simmers?? Im quite sure we are one of the alliances who has run the most large scale OPs on the server so come again mate.

My statement was objective and i didnt declare anything. Besides i never underestimate an opponent and will not begin now.

Just for the fun of it.. How many pacts do you think we have??

 

[DeletedUser54038]

by my guess at least 1-2 and also have coordination with other alliances elsewhere but i guesssss we can't count those as "pacts" can we

 

[DeletedUser54810]

It's funny how doom and gloom for Indie is predicted after just one bad month.

Let us consider the facts shall we?

Firstly. Indie were set up to deal with turtles when SOO attacked us. We were taken by surprise. They did this after making sure TF were no longer a problem not by fighting but by way of a NAP. Then TF hit BROSSR who were fighting our enemies Blue Magic.

All of these alliances hit us/support against our attacks when fighting:

Tesla Spears, Tesla Spears II, Twenty One, Sons of Odin, Sons of Thor, Battle Bears, Repossession Agents, Blue Magic, Dark Souls. That's 5 of the top 12, then the next 3 upto 16th and we didn't count Nemesis support that Repos get either.

So lets add all those enemies, the facts that Indie has been pretty much leaderless over the last 6-7 weeks due to various RL circumstances for the leadership (Paul moving house, my dad having heart surgery, PK having a rare world where she coulnd't get going, Stack and a couple of others going on holiday and we can never find Warborn anyway (happily I saw him here earlier lol.) One of our top players (Kill Me Please) left a week before SOO attacked us because he was bored and we wouldn't turn SOO red so he could attack them.. Lucky or what? So what do we have?

9v3. The 3 were leaderless. And that's all you took between all of you?

That is SERIOUSLY embarrasing..

Indie is the best alliance, y'all prove it by needing to team up with other top alliances to beat us.. Even if we lost we are still the best alliance here.. The fact is not one of our enemy alliances can beat us 1v1. In fact the best two enemy alliances (including all their divisions) together would not beat us, it's taken all of the above to have any success whatsoever against a leaderless Indie so read it and weep Selymbria..

 

[DeletedUser46395]

Best will in the world, we're (21) only fighting you because your members attacked us first, we're not part of any super-coalition against you; indeed we're at war with one of them, who are our main enemy. It was entirely your alliance's decision to fight, not ours. Not an issue for us, we've no problems fighting you, but you're not our priority enemy - we couldn't care less what you do outside our waters, frankly.
I leave it to others to judge what that says about your alliance and its leadership, there are plenty of possible interpretations.

 

[DeletedUser54810]

Best will in the world, we're (21) only fighting you because your members attacked us first, we're not part of any super-coalition against you; indeed we're at war with one of them, who are our main enemy. It was entirely your alliance's decision to fight, not ours. Not an issue for us, we've no problems fighting you, but you're not our priority enemy - we couldn't care less what you do outside our waters, frankly.
I leave it to others to judge what that says about your alliance and its leadership, there are plenty of possible interpretations.

You aren't a priority for us either. We haven't opped you once. In fact the last time I spoke to one of your people NAP's were being talked about then the next I know you sided with Tesla's and are attacking our peeps.

From what I can make out (remember a lot of our leaders inc me have been very sketchy over the summer break) this is what happened:

Our guys attacked your guys who got busted supporting our enemies.. Obviously they wouldn't happily sit back and let parasite alliances grow fat on DBP's that stop them taking target cities. (while risking nothing themselves), it's an annoyance. You aren't the only ones doing that though. Nemesis did the same for Repos. Dark Souls even got brave and attacked us (seriously? like those mugs would last 2 mins against Indie alone) and we busted BB/SOO supporting our enemies Smoking Guns despite us have a NAP (so beware all you guys with NAP's, they only count when SOO say they do and they will support your enemies because that isn't classed as 'aggression/attacking' when this suits them). It seems Indie are the only alliance who give genuine NAP's and don't look to diplo our way through the game.

The facts of Grepo are alliances get brave when there are enough enemy alliances fighting a rival.

Selymbria is getting brave (ish).. But seriously without Indie it would be a shameful love in full of hugs, kisses and cuddles.. Thank god for Indie.. Without us this world would be rubbish..

 

[DeletedUser48582]

Lol Dave... first off we did not have an official NAP. Talks between Holmaduh and I where in progress unofficially and he said an Indie leader (quite sure he ment you) would contact us to go through official talks (terms etc) but it never happend = No NAP. So that one is on you not to secure that in advance.

You talk of A coalition and mass diplomacy etc but none of this is true. You where attacking all alliances ( including our pact-partner) minus SONS/BB. All we did was to slip a word or two and get things more organized. Besides once we give our word we Stick by it and wont sit back and watch an allied be torned a part. Our list of NAPs/pacts by the way are quite small for the record.

Trying to make SONS and BB look untrustworthy is a major fail mate - should be below your class??

We do our outmost to play a fair game and have never stabbed any ally in the back - and we will not begin now.

 

[DeletedUser46395]

No Dave, several of your guys came into our ocean and attacked us first; at that time, our thoughts were more about trying to work with you than fight you. Clearly not what you guys wanted, which is fine, but don't try to re-write history to present yourselves as heroic victims. You're at war with everyone because of your own clumsiness, no other reason. If you think that makes you a great alliance, no skin off my nose, but I suspect it will be a minority opinion.

 

[DeletedUser54810]

Lol Dave... first off we did not have an official NAP. Talks between Holmaduh and I where in progress unofficially and he said an Indie leader (quite sure he ment you) would contact us to go through official talks (terms etc) but it never happend = No NAP. So that one is on you not to secure that in advance.

You talk of A coalition and mass diplomacy etc but none of this is true. You where attacking all alliances ( including our pact-partner) minus SONS/BB. All we did was to slip a word or two and get things more organized. Besides once we give our word we Stick by it and wont sit back and watch an allied be torned a part. Our list of NAPs/pacts by the way are quite small for the record.

Trying to make SONS and BB look untrustworthy is a major fail mate - should be below your class??

We do our outmost to play a fair game and have never stabbed any ally in the back - and we will not begin now.

You gave your word and I gave mine. We both went back to our respective alliances and told our players we had a NAP and to not hit each other. You know this and I know this.

So.. If we didn't have a NAP.

1. Why did I come to you when your players hit mine and vice versa?
2. Why did you ask for refugee status with former HoundDog players who joined us and why did we grant that? Surely you don't ask refugee status with everyone? and even better expect you'd get that from any brown alliance unless you had some sort of deal with them.. Laughable, really it is

NAP's are not allies.. You played the sitation as 'smartly' (I'd just call it slimy) as you could so don't give me that rubbish about stabbing an ally in the back. This is why I hate diplo and Indies hate diplo.. because it's all just BS.. We didn't make you look untrustworthy, your own actions did that.

 

[DeletedUser54810]

No Dave, several of your guys came into our ocean and attacked us first; at that time, our thoughts were more about trying to work with you than fight you. Clearly not what you guys wanted, which is fine, but don't try to re-write history to present yourselves as heroic victims. You're at war with everyone because of your own clumsiness, no other reason. If you think that makes you a great alliance, no skin off my nose, but I suspect it will be a minority opinion.

My thoughts were not for attacking you guys also as 10 top ranked enemies is enough, that was what was being talked about when I last spoke to you. I had other RL stuff to deal with so if a couple of idiots from my alliance hit you (we all have those, ones who like to test the boundaries) why did you not inform us?

If we were talking about something why was our attention not brought to our players hitting you? If we don't know (because nobody posted hitting you in forum or skype) and you don't tell us how can we do anything about that? It's simple. Instead of doing what anyone else would do in that situation (inform us) you say nothing and joined against Indie because you think we'll lose. With all the enemies on our list you feel brave..

I'm sorry I haven't been around to deal with stuff but to be honest my old man having heart surgery was a lot more important than any of this ****. But now I'm back, and I'm looking for some payback..

 

[DeletedUser46395]

My thoughts were not for attacking you guys also as 10 top ranked enemies is enough, that was what was being talked about when I last spoke to you. I had other RL stuff to deal with so if a couple of idiots from my alliance hit you (we all have those, ones who like to test the boundaries) why did you not inform us?

If we were talking about something why was our attention not brought to our players hitting you? If we don't know (because nobody posted hitting you in forum or skype) and you don't tell us how can we do anything about that? It's simple. Instead of doing what anyone else would do in that situation (inform us) you say nothing and joined against Indie because you think we'll lose. With all the enemies on our list you feel brave..

I'm sorry I haven't been around to deal with stuff but to be honest my old man having heart surgery was a lot more important than any of this ****. But now I'm back, and I'm looking for some payback..

Quite understand. My dad died, which is why I wasn't around.

 

[DeletedUser48582]

You gave your word and I gave mine. We both went back to our respective alliances and told our players we had a NAP and to not hit each other. You know this and I know this.

So.. If we didn't have a NAP.

1. Why did I come to you when your players hit mine and vice versa?
2. Why did you ask for refugee status with former HoundDog players who joined us and why did we grant that? Surely you don't ask refugee status with everyone? and even better expect you'd get that from any brown alliance unless you had some sort of deal with them.. Laughable, really it is

NAP's are not allies.. You played the sitation as 'smartly' (I'd just call it slimy) as you could so don't give me that rubbish about stabbing an ally in the back. This is why I hate diplo and Indies hate diplo.. because it's all just BS.. We didn't make you look untrustworthy, your own actions did that.

IF we had a NAP why wasnt there any terms then? We agreed to stay out of each others path - Nothing else. We never make NAPs without any terms in fact im quite sure 9 out of 10 alliances has some form of terms when discussing diplomacy.

Refugee status is followed with or without any NAP its an unwritten rule of Grepolis - but perhaps Indies dont follow these. I dont care if the request comes from a brown or green alliance... we follow this under all surcumstances.

Last but not least... NAP partners can be considered allies its just a matter of what arrangements the NAP contains.

 

[DeletedUser54810]

We don't do pacts so a NAP is all anybody will get from us.. We had terms, we didn't hit each other and would look at swapping cities in key areas at a later date. You gave your word and I gave mine. That's a NAP. Nothing in there about supporting enemies but we refused to help your then enemies TF and you did support ours against us.. so you suck.

We both stuck to it (well apart from y'all supporting our enemies but we didn't catch on right away) and sent reports of players who ignored this.. I did say when one of your guys attacked ours a couple of times that the next time he did it he'd get whacked and y'all got butthurt and said that I better not make threats again. It wasn't a threat. We would have carried it out and in the same situation you'd have likely said something similar. You sure was upset about us defending a refugee from zaphod (the alleged botter) but I made sure that city was handed over to him because of that error.

We played it straight and seeing as we are Indie everyone knows that's how we do things. Trying to make us out as dishonest is hilarious. If we were like that we'd have NAP's and pacts all over the show. Like y'all do. Instead we have a couple and we stick to them. We don't support againt the people we NAP with either. Like y'all do.

No.. The real issue was when we caught you supporting our enemies. That is when you decided we suddenly had no NAP (oh and you'd just Napped TF at that point) so say what you like but anyone who takes any NAP with you should know it's on your terms and you will undermine them whenever you can just like you did with us.

I don't mind the banter, I love the fighting but trying to make out that the straightest most honest alliance there is are liars takes the biscuit..

 

[Ahr-Ex]

but we refused to help your then enemies TF

Oh hold up now. Don't make it sound like we asked for support.

 

[NutsNBoltz]

Man are there still post about smoking guns!?!?! Holy crapola!!!!

Do yourself a favor dave, take a break, reorganize, kill some guys, and THEN talk. Yes, indies is in a troublesome situation, but your members are feeling the pains of the attacks, then they see you on here making it WORSE. Pack up your ego, and relaxxxxx. Kill em off, and come back.

This is just some advice, you can take it however you want. Buy I guarantee you your members are feeling pains, and seeing this doesn't help. This is also just fuel to the enemies fire to kill you. You're one of the best alliance by far, holding out like this, but you're lacking strategy...

 

[DeletedUser46395]

Best will in the world, an alliance lacking strategy can't possibly be the best alliance. Nor can an alliance with so many inactives. It's absolutely right that Dave is making it worse - as I always say, you can't win a server in the externals, but you can certainly lose one here.
Indies have some great players. What is currently missing is great leadership - or in fact any leadership, it appears. They've manufactured a situation where they're fighting everyone, even people who are fighting each other. Can the situation be saved? Yes, but not here - it's going to need some solid diplo work to get out of this particular hole, and that won't happen by picking arguments in here with the people you may need to talk to...

 

[DeletedUser54810]

Oh hold up now. Don't make it sound like we asked for support.

You didn't but James would message me asking if we'd straight up attack SOO as well as support y'all. As we had a NAP with SOO (that we apparently never had) we refused.. I'm thinking I need to dig out all these old messages as being called a liar often is beginning to grate..

 

[DeletedUser54810]

Man are there still post about smoking guns!?!?! Holy crapola!!!!

Do yourself a favor dave, take a break, reorganize, kill some guys, and THEN talk. Yes, indies is in a troublesome situation, but your members are feeling the pains of the attacks, then they see you on here making it WORSE. Pack up your ego, and relaxxxxx. Kill em off, and come back.

This is just some advice, you can take it however you want. Buy I guarantee you your members are feeling pains, and seeing this doesn't help. This is also just fuel to the enemies fire to kill you. You're one of the best alliance by far, holding out like this, but you're lacking strategy...

Y'know what mate? I agree.. I'm going to stop defending my actions, I'm going to stop defending my alliance in these forums and leave the talk to you guys.. I know my guys and gals are going through the mill right now and I know more will quit, they did when we were winning so they will when we are losing. That said we lose because 3 v 11 (all in the top 16) is tough but we don't look to diplo our way out of situations because it's not in our nature.

Still I'd like to see how any of you would fare in the same circumstances. My bet it nobody else would even attempt it because it's really tough.

But on the other hand it's the only true way to play.

Goodbye and enjoy the forum. I won't be back until we win or we lose.. Either way i'll still be proud of the fact that nobody could take us down 1v1. if anyone thinks they can pls PM me ingame and we'll see about removing some enemies for the time being to accomodate this..

I won't be holding my breath!

 

[DeletedUser54810]

Best will in the world, an alliance lacking strategy can't possibly be the best alliance. Nor can an alliance with so many inactives. It's absolutely right that Dave is making it worse - as I always say, you can't win a server in the externals, but you can certainly lose one here.
Indies have some great players. What is currently missing is great leadership - or in fact any leadership, it appears. They've manufactured a situation where they're fighting everyone, even people who are fighting each other. Can the situation be saved? Yes, but not here - it's going to need some solid diplo work to get out of this particular hole, and that won't happen by picking arguments in here with the people you may need to talk to...

Last comment. 1. We didn't pick all those fights. They just happened.. The one with y'all apparently was something to do with refugees status on ex drifters joining us. Had I been around I wouldn't have granted that. As it was your players continued to hit after the 24 hours was up and when one or two got sick of it and hit back that was your pretext for joining with SOO/Tesla and co..

2. One thing is for sure. I don't need to diplo our way through this. I leave that to lesser alliances who have to do that.. We are Independent.. The name says it all..

It would be interesting if we left this world, just to see all the lovers in here sudenly with nobody to fight but each other.. Of course we won't do that.. But it would be funny watching all of your tunes change to suit your new agenda's..

 

[DeletedUser46395]

Like I said, no leadership. No decent allowance lets wars against so many alliances "just happen".No decent alliance thinks they don't need good diplo work either - diplo is not just about pacts (in fact that's the least important bit), it's about relationships and knowing what's going on, and making sure wars don't "just happen". You've got no control over rogue elements in your alliances, which is what really started the war with us, as I previously explained.
There are some circumstances when trying to portray your alliance as weak, ineffective and clueless can be a good tactic; I'm really struggling to see how the mess you're in can possibly be one of those, and what you can possibly hope to gain by selling yourself as arrogant and out-of-touch. We're only fighting you lot because you attacked us and tried to move into our waters. If you disappeared, we would carry on our other existing wars - no change of tune for us.