Passed City Governments

[DeletedUser]

Just saying for players in my situation that when attacking with morale the fact that 50 troops becomes a more insignificant issue.

Naturally, in fact 50 extra troops on a smaller player usually doesn't mean anything. I would probably do the same if I were in a morale world, it's all subjective at the end of the day.

Thats more playstyle imo. as an example, back on gamma the first guy to hit 1mp abp did it with maxed cities 13716 points each. Farmspace is just playstyle and its up to the player to find what works best for them.

Alright, that is true that it is up to opinion; I remember jjalsmelton built up his cities to 13k before he left, largely out of convenience. Of course, not all players play like that when they get considerably bigger; so having some choice in that respect would be good.

It would work like trainer and such, While you have it, it is in effect, but as soon as you unresearch or in this case get bolted, it you no longer get the effect but it would not effect the troops in cue at the time and that have recieved the effect.

I figured, but it doesn't answer the conundrum I put forward. If I have some soldiers in training, and assuming that this factor is pinned to a level 25 senate and I get mass bolted; chipping off a senate level, would the troops that I put in the queue that are still building lose their 10% build bonus, or would they not? If they do so as to fit with the theme here, then that would require a complex algorithm that would have little pay-off which would not get passed through... if it wasn't changed in any way; that would give the troop production cut an unecessary advantage over other options which would also not get passed, as well as being arguably non-realistic. On the other hand; if this option were attached to a building that couldn't be bolted, ergo; having at least one special building completed; this would fix that issue. All that would be needed to give players the option of choosing their government would be a programming switch or flag, very simple and effective.

This is just a difference in our opinions here. And you played with me lol? what server and under what name. Don't recognise the name. (feel free to pm it to me)

EDIT: found out who you are. Dam haven't seen another NmE fellow around for a very long time

Most of it is indeed, the subjectivity is always important to note; although the above problem does need solving, and I would prefer it if the options granted here in this idea were not preferential to one style of gameplay over another. Yes, I will send you a PM.

 

[DeletedUser]

I am not sure, but I think MetalCore is saying that if the Senate is bolted to lvl 24, the troops already in production at the time would still receive the benefit, but all future troop productions would not receive the benefit until the Senate reaches lvl 25 again.

 

[DeletedUser2663]

I figured, but it doesn't answer the conundrum I put forward. If I have some soldiers in training, and assuming that this factor is pinned to a level 25 senate and I get mass bolted; chipping off a senate level, would the troops that I put in the queue that are still building lose their 10% build bonus, or would they not? If they do so as to fit with the theme here, then that would require a complex algorithm that would have little pay-off which would not get passed through... if it wasn't changed in any way; that would give the troop production cut an unecessary advantage over other options which would also not get passed, as well as being arguably non-realistic. On the other hand; if this option were attached to a building that couldn't be bolted, ergo; having at least one special building completed; this would fix that issue. All that would be needed to give players the option of choosing their government would be a programming switch or flag, very simple and effective.

Hmm, would require someone a little bit more knowledgable to give a definite answer to this. And can give one but i'm not 100% it would be correct so not worth giving in this case as its a crucial part of the idea itself. Im pretty sure however build times are purely reliant on the factors at the time of being put into cue and not the factors present during the time of the building. Its how hera's spell works and trainer. I can put 100 slings in cue with trainer and unresearch it straight away and the build time will not be affected im pretty sure. (havent tested this out personally so not 100% on it) As far as i know no special algorythms or anything are involved so i dont see how this would be any different

I am not sure, but I think MetalCore is saying that if the Senate is bolted to lvl 24, the troops already in production at the time would still receive the benefit, but all future troop productions would not receive the benefit until the Senate reaches lvl 25 again.

Exactly

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, I understood that was the point of MCs post, and the key difference with the trainer or population growth spells is that they cease to function once the spell ends and are not impeded by other factors except time, unless you undo the research yourself or in the latters case if City Protection is cast. Losing functionality while you're in the middle of sending resources to put troops in queue will be incredibly annoying when you're being mass bolted... same also applies if you're trying to collect resources for wonders by using the 10% resource bonus, only to get continually bolted; the victim in this case returning fire, and bolting just becomes the norm. You would have to spend the next (insert time based on server speed) amount of hours trying to rebuild your 25th level to get back the bonus, which is both expensive and time consuming. So Trainer/Population Growth it makes sense, having this for a level 25 senate becomes problematic.

I don't think having that factor in makes this a well thought-out counter-suggestion... it's only preferable to players who like to max out their cities, it doesn't factor in those who prefer to save some farm space.

 

[DeletedUser2663]

Well in the mass bolting sense its not like its something new to deal with. people would have to rebuild their barracks/harbour if it got hit to get the building times back down. So its just adding another building/way that can affect it and in a sense balancing it. On the point of before in regards to early game, see some one with a level 25 senate on 1 city, bolt em and if you hit the senate it levels the playing feild again. And with bolting you just cast divine protection, if you dont have the favour rates to keep it up then thats what the alliance is for but in the end problem solved, you can rebuild in peace and if it continues reply in kind and rim the bolting noob , problem solved.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well in the mass bolting sense its not like its something new to deal with. people would have to rebuild their barracks/harbour if it got hit to get the building times back down. So its just adding another building/way that can affect it and in a sense balancing it. On the point of before in regards to early game, see some one with a level 25 senate on 1 city, bolt em and if you hit the senate it levels the playing feild again. And with bolting you just cast divine protection, if you dont have the favour rates to keep it up then thats what the alliance is for but in the end problem solved, you can rebuild in peace and if it continues reply in kind and rim the bolting noob , problem solved.

Unless that newb happens to be playing with you on a morale server... lol, also a subjective point.

Getting a level 25 senate isn't hard early game, although special buildings are more difficult to obtain due to their high requirements and resource consumption, that in itself is arguably more balanced for early game, as well as later on; bolting being a problem that's eliminated from the equation. Also unless you lose a sizable amount of barracks/harbor levels, the bonus effect isn't exactly the same as 10% time reduction.

It really is a perplexing counter-suggestion... I mean you lose 5 members in your senate from a lightening strike and suddenly they don't know how to run a government anymore... lol

 

[DeletedUser2663]

Unless that newb happens to be playing with you on a morale server... lol, also a subjective point.

ugh, thinking of that in context makes me shiver.

Getting a level 25 senate isn't hard early game, although special buildings are more difficult to obtain due to their high requirements and resource consumption, that in itself is arguably more balanced for early game, as well as later on; bolting being a problem that's eliminated from the equation. Also unless you lose a sizable amount of barracks/harbor levels, the bonus effect isn't exactly the same as 10% time reduction.

This can be seen as a way of balancing it however, with bolting barracks/harbour you can continually increase thier build times how ever. the loss of the level 25 senate cancelling the effect would be like a counter spell. Example, you are preping a city for training alot of troops by sending lots of resources, an enemy player suspects this and some time after you use pop growth spell the enemy uses a counter spell to cancel it. In this scenario you effectively loose hours of resource (this case favour) but by spending any reserves you can get it back again or wait till you have enough for it. So basically the senate bonus is the spell and the bolt is the counter spell. Also the bolt is random so even then they have to get lucky with it first. And if anyone wants the bonus that badly they can just go spend gold on it anyways cutting the build time.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well gold expenditure is extremely costly for the long term in itself, not recommended; but it is an option technically.

I suppose I can look at it differently... you want to be able to give some credence to maxing out the senate outside of build times with this government idea... alright, but why lose that functionality after losing one level? Your senate goes from a staff of 125 to 120 and all of a sudden they can't run a government anymore? That's dubious.

Maybe have it so you have to lose a few levels... that would make more sense, instead of just one. That would take quite a reasonable amount of bolting to get this effect in long-term gameplay, but short term will still statistically be risky. Maybe I should rim 5 members of your 125 member MRA and see if you collapse from that little venture.

 

[DeletedUser2663]

Hmmm. maybe introduce a reducing effect into it. Have to hit lvl 25 to get the effect and you only loose it fully once the senate falls below level 20 and each level it falls it looses 20% of its effect. So it would decrease like so 10%,8%,6%,4%,2% then 0. Make it that if you want to be able to change goverments you have to have it back at lvl 25 as well.

 

[DeletedUser]

Agreed, that sounds like a good idea. Gave some rep for the compromise.

Either that or you lose 1% per senate level, so 0% would be Senate level 15.

 

[DeletedUser2663]

Ok VisionarySine. Go ahead and make sense of that and incorporate that into the original idea and wait for the next point of discussion to arise lol.

Can you clarify the 10% troop speed. Is that land speed, naval or both?

 

[DeletedUser]

Also equally important; what about myth units? Are they going to receive bonuses from Theocracy, or get movement/production bonuses from the Military one?

It might be worth pursuing the idea of giving +10% strength to myth units in a Theocracy, as well as movement.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm just throwing this out here, but what if the minimum level for the Senate is 20? That way people could build their Senate past level 20 to lower the risk of it getting bolted down past its full effectiveness.


And about the myth units, I think they should get strength bonus from Theocracy but not a bonus from the Military one. But what do you think?

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm just throwing this out here, but what if the minimum level for the Senate is 20? That way people could build their Senate past level 20 to lower the risk of it getting bolted down past its full effectiveness.

Hmm... well I'd say 15 (1% effectiveness per level from 16-25) so it looks as if it would take considerable effort to derail the government of another players city through mass bolting, but either works out.

And about the myth units, I think they should get strength bonus from Theocracy but not a bonus from the Military one. But what do you think?

Agreed, the reason I ask is because Meteorology as a research effects flying myth units, but not land myth ones (at least from my knowledge), and yet Phalanx/Tower have no effect on the power of myth units strength (Wall does though). Trainer/Conscription also works on myths build times and resource consumption, except for their favor. So by this logic, a government that gives speed or construction bonuses should alter myths in some way... seems a bit strange I guess.

That being said; myths should get strength, movement, and other bonuses from a Theocracy.

 

[DeletedUser26213]

So what's going on with this? I see nothing but positive comments

 

[DeletedUser]

No clue, there was a discussion before, but nobody has contributed much to the idea since.

 

[DeletedUser]

Is there anything more I need to do?

 

[DeletedUser26213]

it seems like this should be voted on

 

[DeletedUser8396]

I love it. You will recieve a +1 and a +rep from me.

 

[DeletedUser13459]

i like it