Passed City Governments

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DeletedUser5819

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sorry figgy, I know I should think about this, and it looks cool and complex and well thought out, but...
I really don't want any more complexity. I already have to ignore Heros and events. Don't make me ignore city governments too :p

So forgive me for not adding constructive comments please.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I like the idea, but some are practically historically incorrect, such as communism. But really I think it could revamp the gameplay a bit and make cities more specialized, which is awesome.
 

DeletedUser2595

Guest
Personally i feel the term militarism better describes the thinking behind your current oligarchy set up
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
I like the idea, but some are practically historically incorrect, such as communism. But really I think it could revamp the gameplay a bit and make cities more specialized, which is awesome.

I used certain countries/cities to make the bonuses.
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
No ideas for things to be added exclusively for one government?
 

DeletedUser32250

Guest
I personally think we get enough politics from the Alliances.
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
I decreased the benefits slightly due to the new rewards, advisors, and other new features. Any suggestions?
 

DeletedUser54886

Guest
The concept has some merit, but you don't normally have different governments in cities... if it was an effect that is across all your cities and you have to decide your nations government when you capture your 2nd city that would add a very interesting element...
 

dianices

Phrourach
in keeping with the era and geography, i'd like to know if there's any other types of government we can explore. as for anarchy, that just means no rulers per say. it doesn't mean absence of government, just government that doesn't conform to any "traditional" standards.

two features of anarchy are pure democracy where everyone's voice carries equal weight, and DE-centralization, where government is broken down into its smallest units, and those units communicate/cooperate as a network. anarchy doesn't use "big" government, as that is a centralized form, whereas anarchy uses far smaller "nodes" or hubs, to ensure a broader and more complete access to everyones' ideas and needs.
 

dianices

Phrourach
The concept has some merit, but you don't normally have different governments in cities... if it was an effect that is across all your cities and you have to decide your nations government when you capture your 2nd city that would add a very interesting element...


perhaps, but each city, if we're going to be realistic, will have its own special details to work out, but i doubt this was intended to go that deep.
 

DeletedUser54886

Guest
My point exactly... if it was a nation and you select a government... the government should have some complexity to it and apply to all your cities... so its more about selecting the type of player you want to be...

If this was added, it would have some interesting impacts, for example a city builder might select a government that boosts production & storage, versus one that improves recruit times and attack... and a change in government would need a penalty attached... something like "no resources, building, training, attack or defence for 24 hours..." so your cities could easily fall if you did it in the middle of an attack...
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
The concept has some merit, but you don't normally have different governments in cities... if it was an effect that is across all your cities and you have to decide your nations government when you capture your 2nd city that would add a very interesting element...
This idea is going with the idea of Greece being semi-unified, but having different governments. Even though all your cities are technically under one ruler, I thought it might be interesting to have different governments in different cities.

My point exactly... if it was a nation and you select a government... the government should have some complexity to it and apply to all your cities... so its more about selecting the type of player you want to be...

If this was added, it would have some interesting impacts, for example a city builder might select a government that boosts production & storage, versus one that improves recruit times and attack... and a change in government would need a penalty attached... something like "no resources, building, training, attack or defence for 24 hours..." so your cities could easily fall if you did it in the middle of an attack...

As for your idea of penalty for changing governments, I could work on coming up with an idea for a "penalty" along with the wait.

in keeping with the era and geography, i'd like to know if there's any other types of government we can explore. as for anarchy, that just means no rulers per say. it doesn't mean absence of government, just government that doesn't conform to any "traditional" standards.

two features of anarchy are pure democracy where everyone's voice carries equal weight, and DE-centralization, where government is broken down into its smallest units, and those units communicate/cooperate as a network. anarchy doesn't use "big" government, as that is a centralized form, whereas anarchy uses far smaller "nodes" or hubs, to ensure a broader and more complete access to everyones' ideas and needs.
I wouldn't like adding "anarchy" to this since it represents lawlessness, disorder, and a lack of authority altogether. It basically is lack of a government where the individual can do anything he/she wants.
 

dianices

Phrourach
This idea is going with the idea of Greece being semi-unified, but having different governments. Even though all your cities are technically under one ruler, I thought it might be interesting to have different governments in different cities.



As for your idea of penalty for changing governments, I could work on coming up with an idea for a "penalty" along with the wait.


I wouldn't like adding "anarchy" to this since it represents lawlessness, disorder, and a lack of authority altogether. It basically is lack of a government where the individual can do anything he/she wants.


You're going by more current concepts of the ideology, and not the ones associated with what the ancient Greeks considered. It's been demonized since the late 1600's to enforce centralized political authority, and steer people away from being self governed, whereby they dictate laws to suit their situations day by day, rather than have edicts or mandates forced on them by a detached hierarchy.

Anarchy is very misunderstood and misrepresented, it is NOT chaos or absence of law, yet at the same time, it does not submit to absolute rule or governance by any ONE person or State. Anarchy IS a form of government, but its a more communal format. There aren't any wealthy elite or subordinates of those, running the city, and that's intended.

even so, if its' not preferable to the powers that be, its still not an issue, we're just tossing the idea around and working out the kinks.
 
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dianices

Phrourach
basically there was rule of the one (tyranny, monarchy), rule of the few (aristocracy, oligarchy), and rule of the many (democracy, isocracy). most city states were democratic, giving all native born land owning citizens equal political power, however, tyranny isn't all bad, as tyrants, or kings, could be benevolent.
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
anarchy

[an-er-kee]

noun
1.
a state of society without government or law.
2.
political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control:
The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.
Synonyms: lawlessness, disruption, turmoil.
3.
anarchism (def 1).
4.
lack of obedience to an authority; insubordination:
the anarchy of his rebellious teenage years.
5.
confusion and disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.
It was impossible to find the book I was looking for in the anarchy of his bookshelves.
Synonyms: chaos, disruption, turbulence; license; disorganization, disintegration.

The idea of anarchy could be used as a transitional period when a player decides to change his/her government to a different one.
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
not that i care one way or another, but dianice's point is that these are modern definitions of anarchy, figtree
if you look at historical references, they define anarchy as societies that reject hierarchy, not laws
anthropologists often equate anarchist and egalitarian societies as the same systems... nomads, hunter-gatherer cultures, etc.
-shrug-
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
not that i care one way or another, but dianice's point is that these are modern definitions of anarchy, figtree
if you look at historical references, they define anarchy as societies that reject hierarchy, not laws
anthropologists often equate anarchist and egalitarian societies as the same systems... nomads, hunter-gatherer cultures, etc.
-shrug-
Any form of anarchy would be chaotic and lawless (at least at first) because the existing structure is being overthrown. The Anarchists would be fighting against the existing government and the people who support it. I have decided to have anarchy as a period of time before the new government takes effect. The player would essentially have to overthrow the existing government for that city which would make the government "anarchy" for 24 hours. The forces opposed to said anarchy would defeat the anarchists and the new government would start at the end of the aforementioned time.
 

DeletedUser54886

Guest
This idea is going with the idea of Greece being semi-unified, but having different governments. Even though all your cities are technically under one ruler, I thought it might be interesting to have different governments in different cities.

As for your idea of penalty for changing governments, I could work on coming up with an idea for a "penalty" along with the wait.

I wouldn't like adding "anarchy" to this since it represents lawlessness, disorder, and a lack of authority altogether. It basically is lack of a government where the individual can do anything he/she wants.


An alliance in this game is really like a semi-unified Greek nation... but even in Ancient Greece, there were kingdoms lead by powerful leaders (Sparta was a city, but controlled other smaller cities) - I see each player as one of those... hence the single government... it would also mean that you accept a government type with all its pluses and minuses across all cities, rather than each city having its own...

You could expand this concept by having a single special senate level 26 that can only be built once, as the "Capital" which becomes available once you have 2 cities... building this lets you form a government, and you can change the government in this city, or if you lost this city the same penalty kicks in... It would need to be pretty severe as I suggested like 24 hours of complete "Lawlessness" or something like that... which would mean that your cities are effectively ghosts for that period without an ability to defend them.. making you have to be really careful when you do such a change, or if someone takes your capital...
 

dianices

Phrourach
sparta and athens, as well as rhodes, are all good examples of what anarchy was. they didn't become that way, they started out as direct democracy, with all citizens having equal power, usually managing their own resources, like farming, hunting, fishing, gathering wood and ores for building and other tools. they gathered routinely to determine what to do as a society, and what not to do, so everybody had a real, legitimate say. (ancient villages in africa and asia did the same thing, see "elders")

as populations grew, so did the demand for order, and a stronger military presence towards other growing societies. less elbow room makes for more conflict, because resources start getting scarce.

in order for the modern definition to occur, there would need to be some climactic event, completely disorienting society, throwing it into mass panic and confusion, sort of like if today, an EMP instantly shut off every possible form of electronic activity on the planet.

no light, no communication, no transportation, nothing. people would freak, panic in the streets, that's anarchy by popular definition today.

and i'm done with that topic, i'm just trying to keep our considerations true to the era and locale we're focused on...and i'm with kreeos, if we're insisting on the modern popular term, then it would indeed be a punishment.
 

DeletedUser31385

Guest
Im thinking about the capital idea that was suggested earlier. If we were to have an upgrade to level 26 for the senate.... Shouldn't there be more advantages to having a capital city? I will explore this more when I get back.
 
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