Death Penalty

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DeletedUser

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I disagree. The point of an argument is to debate an argument for the sake of argument, except at which time an argument is not, in effect, an argument, but is instead posing as an argument, or in such cases wherein an argument serves a greater purpose, such as to fulfill the dependencies of an argumentative declaration, in so much as to say that debate is otherwise an endeavor into an argumentative essay, particularly when contraposed to that which is otherwise not truly an argument, but is instead a declaration, or declarative statement, such as it were.
 

DeletedUser4013

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Not to offend anyone who has personal stories or reasons to debate one way or another, but if this does not move back towards the merits of capital punishement vs. life imprisonment I will make this a Limited debate, subject to those rules.
 

DeletedUser

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which brings to mind capital punishment in the battlefield, or during times of war. I understand treason is still punishable by field-applied capital punishment. Does anyone know if this is, in fact, still the case?
 

DeletedUser

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which brings to mind capital punishment in the battlefield, or during times of war. I understand treason is still punishable by field-applied capital punishment. Does anyone know if this is, in fact, still the case?

As far as I know, in the United Kingdom, treason is 'only' punishable by life imprisonment, and not by death. I don't know if the same applies for British troops in the field, however.


Found the following regarding US law:

(c) A sentence of death may be adjudged by a court-martial for an offense under this section (article) only if the members unanimously find, beyond a reasonable doubt, one or more of the following aggravating factors:

(1) The accused has been convicted of another offense involving espionage or treason for which either a sentence of death or imprisonment for life was authorized by statute.​

Source: http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl106a.htm
 

DeletedUser

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All i know is that capital ounishemtn is a complete no-no in British law sand i assume the same applies for British troops.

An argument used against capital punishment was 'if you kill one innocent man then it has to be wrong' Another argument was life imprisonement is far worse than being killed instantly. now switch the arguments around and unless the accused is proven innocent it is kinder for the innocent person to be killed instantly is it not?
 

DeletedUser

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All i know is that capital ounishemtn is a complete no-no in British law sand i assume the same applies for British troops.

An argument used against capital punishment was 'if you kill one innocent man then it has to be wrong' Another argument was life imprisonement is far worse than being killed instantly. now switch the arguments around and unless the accused is proven innocent it is kinder for the innocent person to be killed instantly is it not?

How is it kinder for an innocent person to be killed?

Imprisoning someone allows for them to potentially be proven innocent in the future, and freed to live their life as they should have been able to. Executing someone when there is even the slightest chance of innocence should not be an option at all.

Seriously, how on earth can you make such a ludicrous claim as "it is kinder for the innocent person to be killed instantly"? It baffles me.
 

DeletedUser

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Please read my points more carefully before jumping to the conclusion i am wrong.

My point:

The death sentence is the easy way out and is far better than life imprisonement( and those are Tyrion's words)
If the accused is never proven innocent which may happen a lot then life imprisonement is worse for them
 

DeletedUser

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Please read my points more carefully before jumping to the conclusion i am wrong.

My point:

The death sentence is the easy way out and is far better than life imprisonement( and those are Tyrion's words)
If the accused is never proven innocent which may happen a lot then life imprisonement is worse for them

If they are never proven innocent, that's an issue. However, what would you suggest happens if they are executed, and then proven innocent at a later date? If you were the person responsible for sentencing that person to death, what would be your response? Would you just tell his family "oh, it's ok, it was better that we killed him regardless of the fact that he was innocent"? No, so please, don't be naive. To say that it is better to kill a potentially innocent person than imprison them is pure stupidity.
 

DeletedUser

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Again, please refrain from the personal insults, i am trying to stay as polite as possible.

i dont know maybe tyrion, can say, how many people are actually proven innocent whilst their still alive
Also, in the majority of those cases it's still 20years too late. Their life has been ruined, they may have been mentally damaged from the experience. I am not saying death is better, but if there are only a few proven innocent early on in their sentence then maybe death is better
 

DeletedUser

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Again, please refrain from the personal insults, i am trying to stay as polite as possible.

i dont know maybe tyrion, can say, how many people are actually proven innocent whilst their still alive
Also, in the majority of those cases it's still 20years too late. Their life has been ruined, they may have been mentally damaged from the experience. I am not saying death is better, but if there are only a few proven innocent early on in their sentence then maybe death is better

If there's only a few proven innocent, then maybe death is better? So it's ok to kill a few innocent people? Do you value life so little that you'd happily throw away that of an innocent human, just because they 'might' be guilty? I already went over this, on page 8 of this thread:


Since 1973, in America, 139 people on Death Row have been exonerated. These 139 people, who judge's were confident enough of their guilt to sentence them to death, were found to be innocent of the crime's they were convicted of. Even when it may be considered to be 100% proof, you can never be sure.

Over 1,000 people have been executed in the same time (I think it's close to 1,200 but don't know the exact figure). It's impossible to say how many of these people were innocent of the crimes they were convicted of. At least 3 of those executed have since been proven innocent, and have received posthumous pardons. Many more have been executed despite doubts about the strength of the conviction, even as recently as 2004.

To claim that people are only sentenced to death with 100% proof is absurd, as there's obvious evidence otherwise. Even a single case of an innocent person being executed should be enough for the death penalty to never be in place, but here we are in 2012, with people still arguing that it is a good idea.



What about the other way around? Why would a person claim to be innocent, even when they could save their own life by accepting guilt? In 2004, Cameron Willingham was executed for murdering his three children by arson. He claimed to be innocent to the very end, and was executed still. He was offered a deal, where he would receive a life sentence if he pleaded guilty, but he refused, and still pleaded innocent. This is a man who was so determined of his own innocence that he would rather die than plead guilty. Not only was he executed despite never pleading guilty, but in recent years there has been evidence given which suggests that he may not have been guilty at all, convicted simply because the investigators who first examined his case did not even bother to consider other possibilities. A man was executed because investigators were too damned lazy to do their job, and you think that is right, do you?



Response to that?
 

DeletedUser

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I think this particular point has run out of steam. You may say i have 'lost' but no, we could argue all day as to whether killing a few innocent is worse than imprisoning maybe a few less, but it's never gonna reach an end, so let's wait till the next point comes up
 

DeletedUser

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I think this particular point has run out of steam. You may say i have 'lost' but no, we could argue all day as to whether killing a few innocent is worse than imprisoning maybe a few less, but it's never gonna reach an end, so let's wait till the next point comes up

I haven't said you have lost, I asked for your response. Do not try to argue a point if you cannot give a single shred of evidence to back it up.
 

DeletedUser4013

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The death sentence is the easy way out and is far better than life imprisonement( and those are Tyrion's words)

This is not what I wrote in reply to your PM about this topic.

I quote:

Tyrion said:
Danny9990 said:
Hi,

Just wanted to say i've found the discussion on the death sentence in the debate and discussion section of the forum really interesting. I hope you keep that section permanentely open. You seem to know a lot and there has been a lot of interesting posts regarding different people's opinions.

In your opinion, would you say that taking someone's life away by imprisonement is almsot as bad if not equal to taking away someone's life by murder

I think that life imprisonment is a far worse punishment than the death penalty. Being put to death for horrendus murders is to easy for some of the criminals who commit these crimes. Better for them to suffer in prison, knowing that they will never be given their freedom again, then allow them the easy way out through capital punishment.

I do not appreciate being misquoted.
 

DeletedUser

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Sorry Tyrion, can you point out where i misquoted you? I don't understand.

I wrote: the death sentence is the easy way out and is better than life imprisonement for the accused.

You wrote: life imprisonement is a far worse punishment than the dealth penalty and being put to death is 'too easy'.
 

DeletedUser2595

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If you look at your original statement it doesn't have "the accused" on it. That changes the tone of the whole sentence. Without it, it sounds like Tyrion is supporting the Death Penalty while they are actually against it.

On topic, I agree with Tyrion that the Death Penaltyis the easy way out for a criminal and they should be made to spend the rest of their lives reflecting on what they have done and not enjoying the liberties of a free man. Life imprisonment is better than the death penalty. But only when life means life and they dont get let out with a new identity after only 13 years or something.

For instance I think that the 3 men in the UK who recently lost an appeal against a full life sentence should never have been able to make an appeal based on their Human Rights in the first place. They took away other peoples Human Rights when they committed their crimes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16591164
 
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DeletedUser

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Sorry Tyrion, can you point out where i misquoted you? I don't understand.

I wrote: the death sentence is the easy way out and is better than life imprisonement for the accused.

You wrote: life imprisonement is a far worse punishment than the dealth penalty and being put to death is 'too easy'.

I believe Tyrion was referring to a situation where the person affected has been proven guilty (although that's just how I interpret it, I may be wrong).

You, on the other hand, seem to be referring to a situation where the person is innocent. See:
The death sentence is the easy way out and is far better than life imprisonement( and those are Tyrion's words)
If the accused is never proven innocent which may happen a lot then life imprisonement is worse for them


If a person is guilty of their crimes, to imprison them is to restrain them, to punish them for their actions. To execute them swiftly is an easy way out because it ends their life, they no longer have to deal with the repercussions of their actions, while those left behind do.

If a person is innocent (or at least not proven to be guilty), imprisonment allows them time to make a case to prove their innocence. Executing them takes that chance away from them. Sure, they could be proven innocent at a later date, but they will still have been executed for it.

If you imprison a person for a crime they didn't commit, and they are proven innocent, you can give them their freedom back. If you execute a person for a crime they didn't commit, and they are proven innocent, you cannot give them their life back.
 

DeletedUser

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Well my most recent comment was not a quote but a rough statement. Unless Tyrion is being pedantic then i dont see where i misquoted him. also, i think it is hard for us to say what is easier a life imprisonement or a death sentence. I dont want to know what goes through any human's mind when they know they're about to die, even a twsited criminal's
 

DeletedUser

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For instance I think that the 3 men in the UK who recently lost an appeal against a full life sentence should never have been able to make an appeal based on their Human Rights in the first place. They took away other peoples Human Rights when they committed their crimes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16591164


I'm inclined to agree with you, there. I sometimes think that when someone breaks the law in such a way, they should forfeit their human rights.
 

DeletedUser

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fair point Corininthian but then i guess that exact statement is pretty much 'an eye for an eye' which then goes to support the death sentence....
 
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