Security Captcha

[DeletedUser7577]

Thanks for your concerns. I have, as I said, fed this back to the developers and the project managers, who are looking in to this. The last thing we want is to exclude players due to their disabilities, where possible. I would, however, ask you provide me with some backing for your claims as to the legalities of this in EU law? I only ask so I can again bring this to their attention if need be? Please can you link me to specific legislation.

Thanks

Richard

These are a portion of the laws being breached by not providing this "chapcha" in a format compatible with our visual problems and/or disabilities that does not disadvantage in comparision with those who have no visual or cognitive impairments.

The Disability Discrimination Act 1995

Article 13 of the European Treaty, 1999

Parts of EU Directive 2004/113/EC


Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union - Article 21 (Enshrined into law with full legal effect by the Lisbon Treaty 2009) - which prohibits all discrimination including on basis of disability

Which provides that:

"A disability may be physical, cognitive, mental, sensory, emotional, developmental or some combination of these. A disability may be present from birth, or occur during a person's lifetime.

Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering impairments, activity limitations, and participation restrictions. An impairment is a problem in body function or structure; an activity limitation is a difficulty encountered by an individual in executing a task or action."

 

[Richard]

I have done my own research on the subject, and can find nothing which suggests there is legislation binding the EU to provide accessible access to websites. On the contrary, there doesn't appear to have ever been anything aside from W3C, which are accessibility guidelines only, none legislative guidelines.

I again ask you to provide me with a link to the legislation, from a reputable website. The majority of your quotation relates specifically to UK legislation, not EU legislation. Thus far, you have made vague references to pieces of legislation which do not relate to the discussion at hand.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying without citation, I can hardly bring it to the project managers attention.

 

[DeletedUser7577]

I have done my own research on the subject, and can find nothing which suggests there is legislation binding the EU to provide accessible access to websites. On the contrary, there doesn't appear to have ever been anything aside from W3C, which are accessibility guidelines only, none legislative guidelines.

I again ask you to provide me with a link to the legislation, from a reputable website. The majority of your quotation relates specifically to UK legislation, not EU legislation. Thus far, you have made vague references to pieces of legislation which do not relate to the discussion at hand.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying without citation, I can hardly bring it to the project managers attention.

Your reply is a smokescreen, I have provided reference to the actual legislation - not "vague references" - so I am hardly likely to now cite websites links, why not read the actual legislation.

I notice that you are resident in the UK, therefore you should know that the DDA legislation mirrors EU law, and you will also be aware of the assiduity of the UK agencies in enforcing compliance in all areas.

It the legal duty of Innogames to search out and ensure that they comply with the relevant legislation , it is a well established principle that "Ignorance of the Law is no defence".

As for saying you cannot bring this to anybodies attention without references, you would be remiss in your common law duty not to do so.

 

[Richard]

Again, please link me to the legislation. I read the legislation you quoted. None of it places a legal obligation for Innogames to have a colour-blind friendly CAPTCHA system. Please correct me by showing me specifically where it states that, because currently you are simply quoting generic Disability legislation, which doesn't cover the issues we are discussing in any way, shape or form.

It the legal duty of Innogames to search out and ensure that they comply with the relevant legislation , it is a well established principle that "Ignorance of the Law is no defence".

I agree, but thusfar you have not provided me with any concrete legislation to back your claims.

As for saying you cannot bring this to anybodies attention without references, you would be remiss in your common law duty not to do so.

As I have said, I have already brought this issue to their attention. You are claiming Innogames are breaking the law. Clearly, you know the law better than I do, so why can you not comply with my request?

 

[DeletedUser]

Which provides that:

"A disability may be physical, cognitive, mental, sensory, emotional, developmental or some combination of these. A disability may be present from birth, or occur during a person's lifetime.

So a person is born with no fingers and decides they want to play Grepolis. Unfortunately for them a computer is required, and as such fingers are required to operate it. From what you've just said, Innogames would be in the wrong legally for this person not being able to play Grepolis, since they have a birth defect which is a physical disability. Would you agree to this? Because that's what you're implying, which is a tad ridiculous. Also Richyrichrichshanara has stated already that they don't have plans of excluding anyone and are working on a solution. What's the problem?

 

[DeletedUser]

well, i have hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia so i'm out of here (bandit)

 

[DeletedUser12667]

I for one can't hear the color yellow.

Dude, if you turn your head slightly to the right and look down at a 45 degree angle while standing on your right foot and holding a potato(russet) in your left hand you should be able to hear the color yellow. It took me a while to figure out the stance needed to hear yellow, it works for me. You may find it works for you as well

EDIT: I am really curious, is the cap thing where you have to enter a code really hapening? I have yet to see it. I find grepo and its simplicity what makes me hooked, but if I have to enter codes to play that takes away the simplicity I enjoy. I am just curious, if my interperations are wrong I would like to know.

 

[DeletedUser]

I heard that works... but only if you're in the northern hemisphere.

Sort of like the toilet counter clockwise flush thing....

As for the "Capture-thing-a-ma-bob" Its happened to my bot.... errrr... I mean me.... a couple times.

And my bot.... errr... I mean me.... is getting really sick of telling a computer how much 64-27 is..... mostly because I don't really know.... but also because I try not to get involved in the private lives of rational integers.

 

[DeletedUser]

Never mind hearing the color yellow, what have you all got against toast of the lightly tanned complexion, or are you all preferring to do business deals over the trafficking and consumption of the darker-hued variety? Toast are people too! You're all in violation of the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833, the proper authorities have been notified, and the Royal Navy is on its way.

 

[DeletedUser]

Good job, innogames.......first off, you screw up timing when it's not even daylight saving yet, but give no heads up to let players know. Then, when I'm trying to time a clearing attack for a CS run, you pop up this stupid, pointless captcha box right on top of my attempt, refusing to get out of my way to let me play the game. When I haven't even made a farming demand in nearly an hour, thanks to waiting to time a clearing attack when the timing suddenly is screwed up. So I type in the correct answer for the stupid, pointless captcha: incorrect. I type in the next one: incorrect. next one: incorrect. next: incorrect....

Finally, when my chance of sending a succe3ssful clearing attack for my CS has clearly passed, your stupid, pointless captcha prog allows my correct answer to be a correct answer.


Innogames: nothing but a solid screw-job after screw-job. Must be European college students failing at their remedial computer programming courses at their local technical colleges....

 

[DeletedUser]

Good job, innogames.......first off, you screw up timing when it's not even daylight saving yet, but give no heads up to let players know. Then, when I'm trying to time a clearing attack for a CS run, you pop up this stupid, pointless captcha box right on top of my attempt, refusing to get out of my way to let me play the game. When I haven't even made a farming demand in nearly an hour, thanks to waiting to time a clearing attack when the timing suddenly is screwed up. So I type in the correct answer for the stupid, pointless captcha: incorrect. I type in the next one: incorrect. next one: incorrect. next: incorrect....

Finally, when my chance of sending a succe3ssful clearing attack for my CS has clearly passed, your stupid, pointless captcha prog allows my correct answer to be a correct answer.


Innogames: nothing but a solid screw-job after screw-job. Must be European college students failing at their remedial computer programming courses at their local technical colleges....

Tristram ~

I apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Please be aware that an announcement was posted on the forum as well as the Grepolis homepage about the timing change.

~ Lane

 

[DeletedUser]

Tristram ~

I apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Please be aware that an announcement was posted on the forum as well as the Grepolis homepage about the timing change.

~ Lane

Here is how this went:

I send a CS attack from city A. At the time before the time change....it says the attack will happen at a certain time...

I come back later and send clearing attacks from city B......at a later time because colony ships go so much slower than LS, biremes, or even standard transports. By this time, the time change occured, but the server clock at the bottom left does NOT change to reflect the time change...

So I send my clearing attacks, but the timing for them from city B does not correlate with CS attack from city A....it takes them 1 hour longer to get to target than the CS takes, even though the arrival time shows as the same. Total confusion....

Finally I figure it out, and log out and back into Grepolis, and the server clock now shows the correct, changed time, falling back an hour. But I now have to wait another hour to properly time my clearing attack. In the meantime of figuring all this out, of course, I'm highly confused....

Grepolis doesn't have any problems posting auto-announcements about software upgrades, which not only are not supposed to adversely impact gameplay for your players, but even are intended (I guess) to improve on it. They mostly pass by unnoticed. But you make the choice to NOT post an announcement on a server time change that will definitely pose gameplay issues for players who are not aware of it about to happen. In US, our daylight savings happen on Nov. 4th....

That's very poor, in my opinion.....

 

[DeletedUser]

you make the choice to NOT post an announcement on a server time change that will definitely pose gameplay issues for players who are not aware of it about to happen.

i guess that THIS ANNOUNCEMENT was edited in after your post, just to mess with and target you? same thing with the announcement on the homepage where you log into grepo?

In US, our daylight savings happen on Nov. 4th....

as i'm sure you know, en.grepolis runs on CET and is not based in the US

 

[DeletedUser32488]

So a person is born with no fingers and decides they want to play Grepolis. Unfortunately for them a computer is required, and as such fingers are required to operate it. From what you've just said, Innogames would be in the wrong legally for this person not being able to play Grepolis, since they have a birth defect which is a physical disability. Would you agree to this? Because that's what you're implying, which is a tad ridiculous. Also Richyrichrichshanara has stated already that they don't have plans of excluding anyone and are working on a solution. What's the problem?

That's one really stupid analogy, since a person with no fingers can play this game just fine. I'm sure they have their own devices to use computers that don't require fingers or use some artifical ones.

Besides how much % of the population has no hands or fingers? 0.001% maybe? Color blind are 8-9% pop, and I've no idea how many non-color blind have some other kind of visual impairment. Probably few more percent.

My suggestions:
- consider an option to opt out of ANY farming, in other words you don't farm - you get no captchas. Many with 20-30+ cities don't even farm anymore or just do 8 hour demand.
- captcha numbers and letters must be all in same color on a monotone background. No yellow on blue or red on green or vice versa.
- audio captcha must be present every time

Look at captchas provided by big services like Yahoo or Google - no funny colors there and always an audio alternative. Generally most people hate any kind of captchas, but if they are a must, then do them right!

 

[DeletedUser]

What if a person has fingers, but no hands...... or worse yet.. hands but no arms....

 

[DeletedUser32488]

What if a person has fingers, but no hands...... or worse yet.. hands but no arms....

Even worse when one has no brain, though

 

[DeletedUser12667]

Even worse when one has no brain, though

Umm, you had to throw me into this I cant help my wife doesnt trust me with my brain. And my co-workers support her in not letting me use it Just because I made a few mistakes, I dont see why I am not allowed at least a visitation time with my brain. And the darn court system is backed up so my legal case is in limbo waiting on the court date. Meanwhile I am finicially supporting the brain that I should be utilizing in my daily life

 

[DeletedUser]

So your brain is in daycare?

 

[DeletedUser12667]

I am not sure, without visitation rights there is no telling what it is enduring I am just hoping it is with a loving and supportive family, not some deranged psychopathic family. I am wanting it back, but also kinda scared on what it has picked up while we were seperated

 

[DeletedUser17088]

eugh i hate the captcha

Essentially its saying "dude, you are here too much. get some sun, first though do some maths"

anything to stop botters i guess