Spam Attacking - Let us begin the conversation here

Discussion in 'Player's Council /Community Discussion' started by Oelyndeus, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Oelyndeus

    Oelyndeus Phrourach

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Subject: Spam Attacking
    Definition: Attacking and recalling attacks persistently with the purpose to annoy an enemy and desensitize them to their attack alarm.

    This tactic is not in the good spirit of the game and not what I think InnoGames intended the game to be. I would like to start a conversation here to end the tactic. The game has made great players quit because their mobile alarm gets blown up daily. Attacks should be attacks, not pestering due to the alarm. I think changing this would improve the game and prevent abuse of the game mechanics.

    How do you feel about the tactic? How do you feel it can be prevented?


    Petition: Please write your name below if you agree that Spam Attacking must be stopped and offer a solution, since one must be found. We must work together to find a solution and not put all the effort on InnoGames. If we expect a solution, we can find one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  2. GrepoMeta

    GrepoMeta Hekatontarch

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    I don't think there's anyone who actually enjoys spam attacking. But sadly I don't think it will ever go away, no matter how many polls or complaints or mutual agreements are made. Once the first person in a world spams, that's it really. If you're willing to spam then you should be willing to take any spam that comes back at you. That's the best that can be said really in my opinion.

    It can sometimes be a legitimate tactic as well. A frustrating and annoying one, yes, but you can "spam" in more ways than just to blow up someone's phone. For example, preventing a nearby city from quickly supplying troops to a siege by landing attacks every 5 seconds so they cannot gold or dodge fast enough.

    It sucks, but it will never go away. The only effective solution - don't spam in retaliation as once you do it just makes things worse.
     
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  3. Amphitheus

    Amphitheus Taxiarch

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    My personal opinion is that it should be removed from the game.... But how are you going to make it happen is the question :)
     
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  4. Baudin Toolan

    Baudin Toolan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    I'll chime in and say this is definitely an issue Inno is looking at closely but currently there's not a clear solution so the different communities discussing it like this is incredibly helpful.
     
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  5. Kratos Giantsbane

    Kratos Giantsbane Hipparchus

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Let's say what it is, It is impossible to remove this without removing the alarm itself, So let's go back to the days of having no alarm, People will have to stay online or send their troops far away to protect them while they sleep.

    One other way, People who start spamming deliberately should be kicked out by the alliance leaders in the name of keeping up the spirit of the game, because most good players and alliance sort to spamming only as retaliation. So cutting it out at the roots is the only other solution but it is not that easy.
     
  6. Tusc2010

    Tusc2010 Phrourach

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Unfortunately it is impossible to remove the attack alarm in full. Inno can remove that feature from the mobile app (which personally I don't know why they would), but there are still 3rd party attack alarms on the PC.

    Grepolis report converter comes with one, which maybe would be removed if inno asked them to, but there are also illegal programs with attack alarms.

    Though I cannot personally confirm, I believe the popular Russian bot (if you've played a while, I'm sure you know what I am referring to) also has an attack alarm on PC and even a feature that texts or emails or something. Again, I don't know the specifics, but I don't think the botters are going to remove their alarm just because we ask them nicely haha.
     
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  7. Kratos Giantsbane

    Kratos Giantsbane Hipparchus

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Well, Players can turn it off on their own and they can go back to following the old technique.

    idk why they keep it on and then complain. ;)

    So, kicking players who start spamming seems like the only option. Good luck with getting everyone to agree on this! [​IMG]
     
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  8. Fluvisol

    Fluvisol Chiliarch

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    One of the ideas brought up in the GPC was to have a slider on the app which allows you to let attacks only give you a notification after they've been sent for a certain amount of time (varying between 0-10 minutes)
    For example an attack gets sent at 10:00, if you have the slider on 5 minutes the alarm will only go off at 10:05 if it's still on the way then. If it's canceled beforehand there will be no alarm

    An issue we saw with this was that on fast worlds a cs can take down to 7 minutes (speed 3), meaning putting the slider anywhere over 7 minutes could lose you cities without notification, and ping recall spammers would just let their attacks go out for 7 minutes before recalling
    A possible solution to this would be to reduce the cancellation time on attacks to enemies or neutrals (brown) to 2 minutes, as the fastest attack on a speed 3 world would be around 3 minutes with harpies. This would allow the slider to be set to 2 minutes to completely cancel out ping spam, while still getting notifications for every real attack

    We'd love to hear your thoughts on this and other ideas as well as spam is a really hard thing to get rid of in one go without affecting different aspects of the game
     
  9. Ranga1

    Ranga1 Phrourach

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Slider works well. Max is 10 mins then you can adjust if you have cs closer
     
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  10. G-Fight

    G-Fight Lochagos

    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    I like this one,

    but I'd want to propose a small adjustment, let the slider and the recall time vary depending on the unit speed of the world, on u speed 3 (ws 2) it would be 7 mins as harpies with all modifiers would be just under 8 minutes tt.

    Slower worlds have much higher tt and it would only be logical imo to let have those a longer time to recall
     
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  11. Fluvisol

    Fluvisol Chiliarch

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    The problem is if the spammer has a cs at say 8 minutes he'll expect you to set it to 7 minutes
    To avoid the slider he will just recall attacks when they're 9 minutes out. Hence why we thought the reduced cancel time would be good

    Another idea I forgot to mention was to have a snooze button on the alarm
    Obviously it would require you to still be online but it allows you to stop alarms for a certain amount of time without fear of forgetting to turn them back on. It's not as impactful as the slider but could save marriages :D
     
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  12. Foo Fighter

    Foo Fighter Phrourach

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Play revolt, no one uses alarm, hence spamm doesn't really exist until WW's haha
     
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  13. G-Fight

    G-Fight Lochagos

    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    What you always can do as well is make the time to recall about 25% of the standard tt (no 30% boost, atlanta, Cart & Meteo) but with a maximum recall time that varies on the unit speed as I proposed in my latest comment. This to combat short range spammers AND long range spammers but gives you still the needed time to prepare your defense, dodge, militia etc.

    What it means is the following.

    Eg.
    Given:
    Unit speed 3: max 7 mins recall time
    Attackers A's TT is 8 mins (Harpies)
    Attacker B's TT is 60 mins (Harpies)

    Attacker A attacks you with harpies with 8 mins tt. And let's assume you get alarmed via app after recall time has ended. 1 minute isn't that much to react appropiately if he wouldn't recall it. So I'd propose to make the recall time 25% of the standard tt. It would not reduce with effects of Atlanta, Meteo etc. So the attacker can't recall after 2 minutes in this instance and the defender gets notified 6 minutes in advance for the impending assault.

    Now, just 25% seems very unfair for the same defender against the attacks of attacker B, because that means Attacker B would get 15 mins to recall and only after 15 mins the defender would know of the incoming via notific.
    So there's a max recall time depending on unit speed (eg 7 mins for US3).
    That means regardless of tt, you can't recall after 7 mins on that world and the defender would get notified only after the attack cannot be recalled anymore.

    The defender gets notified well on time but cannot be spammed with fake attacks. Attacks would show up IG like they do now regardless of the ability to still recall.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  14. Baudin Toolan

    Baudin Toolan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    The slider option is difficult to implement per the devs. We don't know if it can realistically be done.
     
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  15. MythicalPoodle

    MythicalPoodle Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    huge waste of time for devs, simply by removing ingame alarm altogether spam is solved, ones that want to stay up 24/7 and deal with inc they will, ones that want to enjoy RL more and sleep more will do just that.

    solving spam as limiting attacks nor anything similar that will effect spam as it is will not happen, knowing how discussion about it between German council members and EN council members ended.
     
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  16. Rachel.L

    Rachel.L Phrourach

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    do you know something we don't, @MythicalPoodle?
    what happens in the gpc forum is unpublished
    so you know this confidential info how?
    perhaps @Baudin Toolan or @Richard need to check into nda issues

    this is an issue that has been on the table since the last gpc council and one that players in MULTIPLE markets want changed
    it is the topic of numerous threads in the EN forum, this is not the first
    whatever happened between gpc members, this still needs to be discussed
     
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  17. Kratos Giantsbane

    Kratos Giantsbane Hipparchus

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    This one seems better than the slider and comparatively less complicated to implement.[​IMG]

    We should have the option to choose between the usual alarm to get notified as soon as it is launched and this method. Just in case people feel they could've avoided loosing if they had the original alarm in place.
     
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  18. MythicalPoodle

    MythicalPoodle Hipparchus

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Violet told me
     
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  19. crazy cowboy

    crazy cowboy Phrourach

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    100% love this. this suggested idea seems great, can someone think of a way it won't work? and I also like the addition of choosing yourself whether or not you want your alarm to be set at spam-proof or as soon as the attack is sent.
     
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  20. Baudin Toolan

    Baudin Toolan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Changing when the app notifies you of an attack, be it immediately or after 2 or 3 minutes of your choice, is a difficult thing to do and we're not sure if that is something that can be done reliably.
     
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