Top 12 Top 12 Alliances+PnP

markovuk

Hipparchus
haha, Kal misinformed as usual :D let me say first of that Heroes was no academy... because we don't need one. Now to Repo and idea that they need to fight "big alliance"... they do that mate :D no worries... not so long ago they were N8 alliance in this world... whit conquer and diplomacy they come to the second place... as I see it they did the best choice possible 4 them.. way start the war whit thermo or heroes?
because someone said something to you 5 months ago? world changes, alliances and leaders also... the point is they adapt. As how you describe REPO in helping out , attacking ... that this is half true we would not be packed whit them.. they help more then you know. As for apsorbing WO please.. your side cangees alliance names each week becouse of merging and stuff... if my memory is good REPO and Heroes are only two alliance that did not cange name from the start... we cange the crew but ship stays the same ;)
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Markovuk, maybe you should tell Ekaterina-the-great that Old Battle Scars is not HEROES' academy. Because she has said in PMs that Achillos is her leader, and if a HEROES member is in charge of that alliance, I would say that it is effectively an academy. :)

I'm not criticising them for their rise to power. Diplomacy is a good tool. But it's not just 5 months ago. Look at their profile now, and it still implies no diplomacy. (Kreeos, if you want evidence, read the right places in the original Top 12 thread, and I think there might have been something on the Wars thread as well, but I can't remember).

Eventually, Thermo, HEROES and REPO are going to have to fight each other. Whether that is now, or much later, it's going to happen. Thermo have the people they want for WW already. You still have plenty of active players, as does REPO. Not going to fit into the 100 cap, even if you all wanted that.

My main issue with them hugging Mayhem/Thermo and HEROES is not that they did so, but that they said that they would never do such a thing, and then they did. They called you guys food no more than a month before pacting with you, and possibly a fair bit less. They pacted with Mayhem only a couple of weeks after saying they would thrash them. That would imply to me that they had no intention of following up those claims.

HEROES and REPO are the only ones in the top few that didn't change name, although some minor alliances have held their name from the beginning, I believe. My criticism is less about the merge, and more about REPO's 2-faced attitude. That profile still mocks any diplomacy, after 2 big pacts and absorbing another large alliance.

It's nice to see someone come to the aid of their ally in a situation like this. But you can't deny the stats. In fact, as REPO is one of the alliances that hasn't been reformed or swapped around several times, it is amusing to see that, for a bunch of supposedly great fighters, their BP rankings are lower than their points ranking. :eek:

As much as I may dislike some of the diplomacy I've seen from HEROES (primarily the way in which the original diplomat treated multiple other alliances, so no fault of your own or the current leadership), you guys and gals are pretty honest about it. REPO are not. Given how quickly those pacts were formed, they must already have been planning to start negotiations at the same time as making those claims. And they still keep their profile which mocks diplomacy.

Kreeos, REPO had a front with us, up in the Northeast. They were attacking us in Northern 63, and did a pretty good job at it. (Some nice fighting up there at the time). They were pushing towards O73, where they could have kept fighting us, and then they basically stopped, for whatever reason. Another claim that REPO leadership made and then never followed through.

As I've stated before, my issues are that REPO have made (and are still making, in the form of their profile) these claims about a lack of diplomacy, despite the fact that they are using a lot of it to gain power. Nothing against that, but please, if you are going to use diplomacy to climb your way up, don't have an alliance profile that is a complete lie. ;)

(I note that Kreeos has cunningly avoided my initial stats reference about REPO's points ranking vs their BP rankings. Good one there. :D)
 

markovuk

Hipparchus
lol still not academy ;) just small alliance who is trying to live in peace whit by us... we are not helping them or having shared tabs.. or recruiting from them.. we are just pretending like they are not even there... the same thing I told you once about your alliance :D
But I can see how you think this is the same as academy.... as for battle fronts.. you have battle line whit heroes and just heroes.. but heroes has more than one .. somehow still we are taking your cities in your core island.. and you loot can't even take our one "shitty player" who joined repo... and please don't tell me you don't want that because i know better :D suez glorifies ex Atlantis failures better than anyone. also, shows repo strength to defend a guy so far from home. As for the main REPO-s post, i can assure you it's totally correct .. they don't negotiate ... they did that already perfectly :) WW time ... lol its so far that heroes did not look where we will build our WW... our goal is kicking enemies *** 4 now... if you don't trust my saying just look http://grepointel.com/topkillers.php?server=en94 or
simple open attackers on "Rancking"
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Okay. I didn't know that. But I do have proof of at least one of your members helping to clear a city for an Old Battle Scars CS. (I had the city tripped, and got the city before Ekaterina, so I have a wisdom on the CS that she then recalled).

We had battles with REPO in O63, and I think on the 63/73 border as well. REPO gave players such as Wabbitwangler an utter tonne of BP while taking those cities, and Warhog from REPO was trying to take a city from me in O63 which I later lost to Lucifer. (I miss him - do you know if he'll come back?)

Yes, well done on taking some cities. We've had inactivity or useless player issues. I could say the same about HEROES. I took a city from Revi in HEROES-controlled space in O63. I believe one or two other Mallorean Empire players did the same, and it took you a fair bit of effort to take us out of those cities. (I think it took you guys at least 3 attempts to take that city from me.) And you managed to lose 2 of Gae Bulga's cities to a lone Atlantis Mallorean member in 63/73, which is basically HEROES' territory as well. Yes, you've taken cities in our core areas at times, but we've got our hands on cities in your core areas, or areas which you mainly control, as well.

Not sure I ever called suezsuez that. Although it was interesting how some of REPO must have ignored the refugee rule, because there was defence in those cities very soon after he joined them. Way sooner than would have been possible if they were honouring the refugee rule. (And possibly before he was even accepted, given how long the travel-times are on a server like this).

They do negotiate, or they would never have pacted with Mayhem (and then Thermo when they formed), and never have pacted with you lot in HEROES, nor would they have absorbed Western Order in a coordinated merge. Maybe they are limited in terms of diplomacy, but you can't say that they aren't doing any diplomacy.

It's far from WW time, but believe me, WW (and the simming that comes with it) will arrive sooner than people think. It always does. That countdown in-game is usually wrong.

The point on fighting wasn't directed at you guys (who are doing a lot of it - I don't need to look at stats), and more at REPO, who have a lower ranking for any type of BP than they do for their points. For an alliance that has been the same since it started, who are supposedly such good fighters, I expected more, to be honest.

I do hope everyone realises that this is a PnP thread, as well as a top 12. ;)
 

markovuk

Hipparchus
haha you are a funny guy .. I hope I told you that be4 :) somehow I don't agree whit you. let's start whit 63 city.. you took it 4 how long? you don't look at the stats? Is Donald somehow related to you? As 4 bull ****, i see on the each day standing on the front page of alliance...
terminate alliance ... IMPS defined mayhem! **** was the ridiculous thing I read here. as 4 suez.. they can't ignore the reffuge rule if they are not fighting whit you ... suez was left to be assimilated wen you stop sending support ...and they took him in ... really I don't f.. know what is gooing on in 35 and who left who ... if the applicant is promising and not food for our pact I don't see any reason to look if imperium has a problem whit him... don't care to bother asking. On the point of Ace... he can do whatever he wishes ... till it dos not threaten our pact relations somehow... rest is his free game. I can say I expected more from you guys as well... told you that you are one of the best defenders here ... I still think that... but attacking, not just yours, sucks... so suck it up and applaud repo on their smart moves in the game.
 

Kreeos

Hekatontarch
Last I looked, refugee rule is not a written rule... its a determination by leadership that a person is a refugee and what to apply to them... if us or heroes want to help someone, that's our choice, refugee, semi-allied partner or whatever they are...
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
I held that O63 city for about two weeks, killing or bouncing 2-3 of John Kaminski's CSs in that time, before a group effort involving Lucifer, Helot, Cranberrysauce and one or two others successfully took the city. (It was cranberry's 1 second LS nuke that did it, actually, otherwise we would have killed it). And I had a city in southwest O33 for even longer. Took a 3-4k ghost on a HEROES island with no friendly flags in view, and it was only taken 3+ weeks later. (I didn't even use alliance LTS on it).

I don't need to look at the stats to know that HEROES is fighting a lot, because I see the threads and battle reports on our forums. So I know you guys are fighting a lot. I don't have that benefit with REPO, which is why I need to look at their stats, and those stats for REPO are disappointing because they are ranked lower for BP than they are for points, yet they claim to be doing a lot of fighting.

REPO's profile is a lie, bluntly. They are basically claiming that they don't do any diplomacy, yet they have 2 pacts and recently absorbed a whole alliance. That counts as diplomacy, simple as that.

I don't get what you mean about "terminate alliance"? Can you explain?

They can. The refugee 'rule' isn't exclusively between enemies. All it states is that if you take a player into your alliance, and they are currently under attack, then you shouldn't support them for a certain amount of time. (It varies a bit, from until the end of any ongoing revolts, up to a 48 hour period). And actually, the reasons for Suezsuez not getting much support were that he wasn't posting properly (basically ignoring bits of the template, or the entire template), and that he was refusing to update. You are right, Kreeos. It's not a written rule. It's a 'rule' in the sense of honour, but unfortunately many alliances don't have much of that anymore...

They can do whatever they want for diplomacy, I just think it is wrong that their profile says they mock diplomacy, when they obviously don't. That's a personal opinion, and I'm allowed to express it.

I'll admit that I haven't been attacking much. Prefer to play defensive at the moment due to RL. (Speaking of that, I am now in VM as of the last few minutes, so any attacks on me will have to wait a while. :))

REPO's moves have been smart. I never said that they weren't tactical. I just think that it's something worth pointing out, that REPO have always mocked diplomacy and yet they have used it to get to where they are, and that they made a lot of bold claims that they never followed up on. This is a propaganda thread, after all, and I can say anything I like to try and damage REPO's reputation. I just choose to keep my posts as close to what I know as possible, rather than being an idiot and screaming "cheat" at anyone better than me. (Apart from a rather odd message from a player named cratouse, I have seen nothing to suggest any cheating or rule-breaking on either side.)

Still, best of luck to you, Markovuk. Maybe I can improve my attacking when I am done with all my exams. :)
 

Kreeos

Hekatontarch
Well - when all is said and done... its just a game, and diplomacy in this game is like any other tool... I was not in this world for a lot of what you talk about... so - quite frankly no idea... but I do know the team I am playing with now, and they genuinely are working as a team with combined goals and yes we are slowly running out of enemies... so we may need to fight you soon, but only time will tell for now, our wars are in the west... Look at the Heavenly profiles... your right, you don't see much fighting in your forums with REPO because Heroes who are our allies are your nearest opponent... that is the way the world has worked out... we each have our battle fronts and we support each other... but over time, leaders and decisions change, and who knows what tomorrow will bring... for now, enjoy your war with Heroes
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
True. I don't deny that diplomacy is a tool. I just tend to object to people who claim that they don't do diplomacy, and then do a tonne of it. It'd be the same points if someone else had done this, rather than REPO.

I know. It was fun when we did have the odd skirmish with REPO. I know you aren't fighting us much - that's why I said I had to use stats, and was referring to the BP stats for you lot.

It is rather fun, yes. Well, I'll miss it for the time that I am in VM. :(
 

markovuk

Hipparchus
hope you will do it too :D learn fast so I can get some DBP.. just don't take to long ... you never know what can happen in that time:D
as for terminate alliance.. check defeated alliance on the profile page of ATLANTEAN EMPIRE
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Haha. I do like my DBP though. It's HEROES who made sure that my BP ranking is nicely ahead of my points ranking. :)

I'm afraid I can't check that. I am in VM at the moment. (Try attacking me if you don't believe me. ;)) Can you take a picture of it?
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
Well, I never knew quite what happened to Mayhem after Thermopylae formed. They still existed for a while after the formation of Thermopylae, so I suppose it is possible, if they killed off the remainders of Mayhem after the Thermo formation.

That sort of thing always makes me wonder just how many small alliances all of us have killed as we have grown. I know Mallorean Empire was the downfall of at least a couple of minor alliances, and that HEROES got rid of a few as well through killing them or absorbing their better players, but I'm not sure we could ever work out quite how many we crushed between all of us.
 

markovuk

Hipparchus
thats part of the game. this claim is like me saying heroes defeated mall empire...and sadly it would be truer than this ... mayem was not defeated they just left simmers in the mayhem and form a new alliance whit top players... inactive were left there and wen it was done .. the last founder terminate mayhem.. just strategic move nothing to do whit upper claim of imps... you could see that from the mile away
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
You might have been winning against Mallorean Empire, but I wouldn't say you fully defeated them. There were enough of us left to keep fighting for a while, but it was a question of the best move for the long term. You know how stubborn I am. :)

I wasn't really watching what happened to Mayhem after the formation of Thermopylae. Therefore, I didn't know what happened.
 

markovuk

Hipparchus
so you can see how ridiculous this statement is? ImPS were not even winning the war and they claim something like that..
 

Kal Gordon

Phrourach
I didn't know how Mayhem died after Thermo was created. If the remaining Mayhem members had been killed by Imperials, then it would have been legitimate. But again, I wasn't following this, so I didn't know.
 

Simple977

Phrourach
Once the active players had moved over from Mayhem, the alliance was disbanded and the inactive players left as food. If this isn't the case then first I heard of Mayhem being disbanded due to another alliance attacking them. FYI the first answer was the correct one ;)