Spam Attacking - Let us begin the conversation here

Raydium88

Strategos
Will say it once again, and for the last time... as there have been enough players sharing this view.

This is a GAME. It is a war game, but above everything a GAME. Is meant to entertain, and be enjoyable among the player-base.

Spam attacking is, and in many cases, a required strategy to overpower or deceive an opponent. So many good examples have been referenced, like anti-self snipes, prevention of insta-gold units... And no, whole-island HCs are NOT spam... for crying out loud peoples...

BUT, is when you cross the line beyond it, with the malicious intent for promoting players to quit, or lock them out of the game (yes this is a thing), that's when the game stops being enjoyable/playable. That's when there should be restriction, limitations or even punishments for those whom engage in said practice. Is there an easy way to do it/define it? I am not the most original or imaginative cookie, but many great ideas have been posted here so far.

In the end, remember this is a game. Its morality should NOT be a target of references by real life texts and scripts. Don't take it out of proportions to justify indecency on what is meant to be entertainment AND a business. Driving your customers away isn't a smart business decision, hence why Inno would and should look into the issue........... Provided they give a damn at this point lol...
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
Will say it once again, and for the last time... as there have been enough players sharing this view.

This is a GAME. It is a war game, but above everything a GAME. Is meant to entertain, and be enjoyable among the player-base.

Spam attacking is, and in many cases, a required strategy to overpower or deceive an opponent. So many good examples have been referenced, like anti-self snipes, prevention of insta-gold units... And no, whole-island HCs are NOT spam... for crying out loud peoples...

BUT, is when you cross the line beyond it, with the malicious intent for promoting players to quit, or lock them out of the game (yes this is a thing), that's when the game stops being enjoyable/playable. That's when there should be restriction, limitations or even punishments for those whom engage in said practice. Is there an easy way to do it/define it? I am not the most original or imaginative cookie, but many great ideas have been posted here so far.

In the end, remember this is a game. Its morality should NOT be a target of references by real life texts and scripts. Don't take it out of proportions to justify indecency on what is meant to be entertainment AND a business. Driving your customers away isn't a smart business decision, hence why Inno would and should look into the issue........... Provided they give a damn at this point lol...

a) For the 100th time. The intent of 'spamming' is not to make players to QUIT Grepolis. This is something that the opponents of "spamming" are making up. This is NOT the intent. Can you guys stop making this FALSE accusation.

b) Nothing wrong with taking a Game or a Sport seriously. I like it this way and others do too. We might not be the majority, but many people in the population take their hobbies seriously. You just have to accept that some of us take Grepolis seriously.

c) The company is creating this new world for beginners or people that do not like the intensity. Players who want to play casually can go now there.
 

Raydium88

Strategos
a) For the 100th time. The intent of 'spamming' is not to make players to QUIT Grepolis. This is something that the opponents of "spamming" are making up. This is NOT the intent. Can you guys stop making this FALSE accusation.

Utter rubbish. And you know it... so so so many players do it with the sole purpose to drive you to quit. I am not saying you or everyone who spams does so with said intention, but malpractice against player whom one might have a dislike on, it EXISTS. And no one can tell me, or this community otherwise. I will even add up a layer of truth to it, and say is more common on CQ servers. But toxic players and "trolls" with no life to sit and spam you attacks, send/recalls and pages of supports... they are everywhere and any server you log into. This is the internet after all...

Is almost like a Russian roulette... you never know who you're gonna piss off. If that player you took a city from, won't spawn back in the rim to make your life hell for months on end. So many great players, unquestionably respected and acknowledged players (whom I had pleasure to play with and against) have had enough, and left/retired. If you think me and everyone else is making stuff up, you're either in denial to make a defense, or haven't been playing this game long enough to have witnessed it yourself. I will go with the first option not to insult you or your gameplay.
 
a) For the 100th time. The intent of 'spamming' is not to make players to QUIT Grepolis. This is something that the opponents of "spamming" are making up. This is NOT the intent. Can you guys stop making this FALSE accusation.

b) Nothing wrong with taking a Game or a Sport seriously. I like it this way and others do too. We might not be the majority, but many people in the population take their hobbies seriously. You just have to accept that some of us take Grepolis seriously.

c) The company is creating this new world for beginners or people that do not like the intensity. Players who want to play casually can go now there.
Spamming is spamming and most players see it as a bad thing.
Hc and lots of actual attacks arent considered spam.
But trying to crash someone's game or deny them the service by spamming isn't alright.
Also sending and recalling supports over and over so that the poor guy had over 999+ reports.
 
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DeletedUser54775

Guest
Utter rubbish. And you know it... so so so many players do it with the sole purpose to drive you to quit. I am not saying you or everyone who spams does so with said intention, but malpractice against player whom one might have a dislike on, it EXISTS. And no one can tell me, or this community otherwise. I will even add up a layer of truth to it, and say is more common on CQ servers. But toxic players and "trolls" with no life to sit and spam you attacks, send/recalls and pages of supports... they are everywhere and any server you log into. This is the internet after all...

Is almost like a Russian roulette... you never know who you're gonna piss off. If that player you took a city from, won't spawn back in the rim to make your life hell for months on end. So many great players, unquestionably respected and acknowledged players (whom I had pleasure to play with and against) have had enough, and left/retired. If you think me and everyone else is making stuff up, you're either in denial to make a defense, or haven't been playing this game long enough to have witnessed it yourself. I will go with the first option not to insult you or your gameplay.
I do not think that is rubbish. I genuinely think this way. You guys are using fear mongering tactics to try to eliminate and stigmatize fair strategies in the game that you can not deal with it.
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
I think you confuse the term strategy with malice.
But hey, if you really, reeeeally think that way... Then, pardon me bluntness, but you're just plain ignorant not to see issue. Sowwy...

Now I will leave the actual constructive suggestions and ideas to the people who do have something to add to this thread.
I shall shush now.
There is nothing new here. I will not stop pointing out that there is great subjectivity and bias in your claims that people who use multiple small attacks are moved by malice and have ill designed character. If you guys were honestly advocating for "comfortable and pleasant experience", then you would be opposed against "spy-bombing" and having multiple alliances ganging on a player, to make a point.

I do not see, Kal and and his friends, asking that spy attacks should be done in multiples of 10K or that a maximum number is allowed per city. I do not see request to have a city receiving only attacks from ONE alliance per day. I do not see request to put a limit on the maximum number of troops that you can buy with instant gold purchases.

Your request is of ultimate hypocrisy and one sided.

For us Washington and the patriots were heroes and practical soldiers. For the King and his subjects, the Americans were morally corrupt men that used reprehensible tactics. It is simply the side where you are in a conflict.

WHEREAS Many of Our Subjects in divers Parts of Our Colonies and Plantations in North America, misled by dangerous and ill-designing Men, and forgetting the Allegiance which they owe to the Power that has protected and sustained them, after various disorderly Acts committed in Disturbance of the Public Peace, to the Obstruction of lawful Commerce, and to the Oppression of Our loyal Subjects carrying on the same, have at length proceeded to an open and avowed Rebellion, by arraying themselves in hostile Manner to withstand the Execution of the Law, and traitoroursly preparing, ordering, and levying War against Us.

Nothing new here guys. Humans always argue that the other side is the morally corrupt and the one that is using unfair tactics.
 

DeletedUser54192

Guest
a) For the 100th time. The intent of 'spamming' is not to make players to QUIT Grepolis. This is something that the opponents of "spamming" are making up. This is NOT the intent. Can you guys stop making this FALSE accusation.
Then you never saw the actions of IceNHell and Hell73 on en94, or the alliance Just For Laughs on a number of worlds (whose leader has been seen both bragging about spamming players out of the game, and offering this as a "service" in exchange for gold). Those are just two of the large-scale examples.

If you guys were honestly advocating for "comfortable and pleasant experience", then you would be opposed against "spy-bombing" and having multiple alliances ganging on a player, to make a point.

Multiple alliances targeting a player isn't the same as spam (unless all those alliances are just sending minimal attacks, which is extremely unlikely). Spy-bombs don't set any form of alarm off (in-game or app), can't be used as ping-spam, and the only real negative aspect (lots of reports) automatically stops when the cave is emptied.

I do not see, Kal and and his friends, asking that spy attacks should be done in multiples of 10K or that a maximum number is allowed per city. I do not see request to have a city receiving only attacks from ONE alliance per day. I do not see request to put a limit on the maximum number of troops that you can buy with instant gold purchases.


  • Because spy-bombing is practically never used to ruin people's game experience (due to reasons explained above).
  • Because it ruins joint OPs (and therefore makes pacts worthless in an offensive capacity, and also leads to easy abuse because if you get a friend in another alliance to send a harmless attack at your city, a serious enemy alliance can't attack that city).
  • I've seen (and been in favour of) worlds with limits on gold use.


Your request is of ultimate hypocrisy and one sided.
His post didn't even have a request.

Nothing new here guys. Humans always argue that the other side is the morally corrupt and the one that is using unfair tactics.
Except that in this case a number of the people using those tactics actually openly announce the lack of morals associated with it.
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
Then you never saw the actions of IceNHell and Hell73 on en94, or the alliance Just For Laughs on a number of worlds (whose leader has been seen both bragging about spamming players out of the game, and offering this as a "service" in exchange for gold). Those are just two of the large-scale examples.



Multiple alliances targeting a player isn't the same as spam (unless all those alliances are just sending minimal attacks, which is extremely unlikely). Spy-bombs don't set any form of alarm off (in-game or app), can't be used as ping-spam, and the only real negative aspect (lots of reports) automatically stops when the cave is emptied.




  • Because spy-bombing is practically never used to ruin people's game experience (due to reasons explained above).
  • Because it ruins joint OPs (and therefore makes pacts worthless in an offensive capacity, and also leads to easy abuse because if you get a friend in another alliance to send a harmless attack at your city, a serious enemy alliance can't attack that city).
  • I've seen (and been in favour of) worlds with limits on gold use.



His post didn't even have a request.


Except that in this case a number of the people using those tactics actually openly announce the lack of morals associated with it.

Exactly the point Kal. If you really have an issue with an specific person or alliance, then you can discuss it with the developers or discuss with the alliance. Or the entire server can join against them.

You are using those people as an excuse to stigmatize people who use small attacks and change the game in a way that would not enable us to survive and defeat bigger alliances.

Why should I pay the price for the actions of someone who I do not know and I am not related too.

Once again, the defeat that we inflict on your mega coalition could not have happened if you guys would be succesfull in putting the limitations that you are requesting.

You will always use an excuse to justify your tactics and condemn our tactics and make us villains.
 

DeletedUser54192

Guest
Exactly the point Kal. If you really have an issue with an specific person or alliance, then you can discuss it with the developers or discuss with the alliance. Or the entire server can join against them.
As I stated, those are just a couple of examples. The issue is on a much wider scale, as pretty much everyone knows.

You are using those people as an excuse to stigmatize people who use small attacks and change the game in a way that would not enable us to survive and defeat bigger alliances.

It's perfectly possible to defeat larger enemy groups without spam. I've done it on multiple occasions (in a team or practically solo), and we all know I'm no star player. It's about misdirection and teamwork, not mindlessly selecting a minimum troop quantity and clicking the attack button again and again.

Why should I pay the price for the actions of someone who I do not know and I am not related too.

You've admitted that you used spam in a way that devalued the game experience for players, earlier on in this very thread.

Once again, the defeat that we inflict on your mega coalition could not have happened if you guys would be succesfull in putting the limitations that you are requesting.
And here we go with that again. Spamming was a relatively minor factor in that war. Spying, betrayals, infighting and diplomacy all played much larger roles. If Thermopylae really did rely on spam to win that war, then it demonstrates that they lack the skill to fight against other top-tier alliances (which has been proven to an extent already).

You will always use an excuse to justify your tactics and condemn our tactics and make us villains.
I debate against tactics that have a negative impact on the majority of the community. I do not go seeking to make particular players into villains based upon personal grudges.
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
I am not convinced nor the developers. This is why rightfully they have not done anything concrete. You can think of solutions to the "problem" without altering the rules so you can get a tactical advantage.
 

DeletedUser54192

Guest
I am not convinced nor the developers. This is why rightfully they have not done anything concrete. You can think of solutions to the "problem" without altering the rules so you can get a tactical advantage.
Whether you are convinced or not, the majority of the community knows that spam is not a necessary tactic for defeating larger alliances.

The reason the developers have done nothing is much simpler: they're too busy inventing controversial gimmicks like the new activity tool, rather than solving existing issues. They also have a history of completely ignoring community feedback (a key example being the old war package controversy - community response was overwhelmingly negative, there was a petition against it, then Inno went and introduced it anyways).
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
Whether you are convinced or not, the majority of the community knows that spam is not a necessary tactic for defeating larger alliances.

The reason the developers have done nothing is much simpler: they're too busy inventing controversial gimmicks like the new activity tool, rather than solving existing issues. They also have a history of completely ignoring community feedback (a key example being the old war package controversy - community response was overwhelmingly negative, there was a petition against it, then Inno went and introduced it anyways).
In this case, they are not ignoring community feedback.
The feedback is clear that there is no consensus. Kal, I hate to break it to you, but YOU are not the community. Of course, the developers and the company have spoken with their actions. You can join worlds with training wheels or play Farmville or Barbie Video Games . Of course, the company and developers have taken into consideration hundreds of suggestions and dismissed many. For many of us, the company is doing the right thing by not succumbing to your pressure and treacherous tactic of fear monguering. They are seeing through your motives.

Do not ruin this game that we like and enjoy. It is complex and it can be hard. Just learn to deal with it.
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
@FutbolTango, the issue of spam was raised by inno, and brought back to the community for discussion by the GPC at their request
so yes, the devs do believe there is a reason to discuss this issue
you can read about it on beta, DE, EN threads, and other platforms in great detail
please do not demonize Kal, the GPC, or other players because you disagree
whether you believe it a tactic or a nuisance, moral or not, this situation was not raised by "whiners" but by inno staff themselves b/c they saw a problem
while you continue to insult people personally, others give their opinions on a game feature and facts gathered from multiple users, some data supplied by inno on other servers
it makes you seem inexperienced and petty, which i know you are not
in the end, inno will do whatever they want but before then please try to make your points without such antagonism
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
I have no doubt that the issue had to be discussed, and I had no doubt that the developers had to look at the issue from many angles.
The point is that they HAVE NOT DONE any changes. I do believe that this the correct decision on their part.

Lets look at the cold mathematical numbers, and you will clearly see that the the issue is completely subjective.

Lets assume that you and I have a city. You have 200k in your cave. I have 100k in my cave. You spy bomb me with 1k spy missions.
You will generate at least 100 reports on my inbox.

Lets assume that I have 300 ls in my city. Giving the usual constraints. I can send you about 30 attacks.
I will generate a maximum of 30 reports on your inbox.

So who is spamming who?

Notice that I can not send you more than 30 attacks, but you could spam me with technically a very high number of spy attacks. If I have in a cave 200,000. You can flood me with 200 reports on my inbox.

This is a cold mathematical consideration. "You" are the spammer. I am not the spammer. However, according to Kal and company, I am the "spammer" and the problem.

Now, lets see why the two make a difference in the game and here the underlying issue. You get information on my city. This is all. You can even get wrong information If I am smart. I hide my ls somewhere else. You attack me, and I can ask my friends to intercept your attack.

On the other hand, I can send 15 attacks. One half of the LS and another 14 with small attacks. Now I can help someone or myself to land a CS in your city from another nearby city. This one combination among literally dozens of combinations and patterns of attack that I can use to confuse you and gather information about your city.

This is the crux of the argument. Having the POSSIBILITY sending multiple small attacks helps me to tailor a unique attacking pattern that can render your attempt to snipe or defend the city useless.

If I only CAN send one or two LS attack, it will be easy for you to snipe.

In reality you are the spammer. I am not the spammer. However, of course you will be upset that we took the city from you and you will accuse me of being an spammer and ruining the game and that I am forcing you to quit the game.

Notice that I do not get the city and you get a good defense, you will be able to get BP.
Spy bombing is a dead weight loss to the game. We killed resources for nothing other that one time information.

Small attacks create BP that later on can be used for growth. The game grows with small attacks.

Now. If all of you are not been dogmatic, you should agree that small attacks creates BP for both parties. It is good for the growth of the game.

Spy bombing is done by the strong and big alliances. Thus, you do not see an uproar.
Small attacks are done by those of us who are resisting with valour and bravery the mega alliances that gang on us. This is why we are depicted as villains.
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
Ps. I forgot this. If I send my 100k to your city. I will never get information from you as you have more. Now you only send 1k and you get information.

If I send a small ls force and also some troops, then I can do mathematical approximations to inform me of the possible troops that you have there. I can get an information on your wall level. I can get information on what type of troops you have. I get tons of information about you from the small attacks, and I have preserved my 100k.

This is what pisses people off. The small guy can defeat the big guy with small attacks.
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
Inno's lack of change has nothing to do with making a decision and more to deal with all the fires they are putting out. There are many problems bigger than this happening right now.

To the point, actually, Futbol, no one in any post in this thread has called you or anyone (in your scenario) a spammer. I think you have a guilty conscious. This shows that you have not read any post in it's entirety but written here based on your bias of this argument. No one considers the 30 waves or the 100 waves (what you deemed the spammer) as spam. You are talking about 100s of reports. Everyone else is talking about 100,000 reports. To one person. In the space of 12 hours. These are not attacks to clear cities or gain intel as you have stated as the reason for your multi-waves.

Again, you are writing pages of text defending apples and we are discussing hurricanes.
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
Inno's lack of change has nothing to do with making a decision and more to deal with all the fires they are putting out. There are many problems bigger than this happening right now.

To the point, actually, Futbol, no one in any post in this thread has called you or anyone (in your scenario) a spammer. I think you have a guilty conscious. This shows that you have not read any post in it's entirety but written here based on your bias of this argument. No one considers the 30 waves or the 100 waves (what you deemed the spammer) as spam. You are talking about 100s of reports. Everyone else is talking about 100,000 reports. To one person. In the space of 12 hours. These are not attacks to clear cities or gain intel as you have stated as the reason for your multi-waves.

Again, you are writing pages of text defending apples and we are discussing hurricanes.
Seriously Rachel,
First, If somebody sent me 100,000 small attacks in 12 hours, I would be celebrating. How many BP can you get with this?
Second, because i guy sends 100,000 small attacks, then I should be penalized and be stuck to sent only one or two attacks per city.

For the record, I have been under attack from more than 30 players at once and received over 1,000 attacks including nukes and decoys.
The cities were rained with LS nukes, Myth Nukes, and endless small attacks and illusions. My caves were totally drained.

You know what I did. I celebrated with wine for all the BP. Then, on the weekend. I went over all the reports. I stopped attacking them. I created the map and went over the operation. Guess what. Their cities started to fall like bees because I got a wealth of information from their reports.

You can sit a complain around about people attacking you or you can go through the information and counter attack hard.

See the difference in the approach?
Why you did not go after the guy that sent 100,000 attacks?
Each attack costs resources and money to them.

And for the record, I did not LOSE one single city in their attack. I was all night moving troops back and forth, but I survived. This is a war game.
 

Rachel.L

Phrourach
a) who said one guy sent all those attacks?
b) who said anyone was able to log into the system for days with that many reports?
this is a point many have tried to make to you but you gloss over b/c it doesn't work for you
c) the point of true spam attacks is they give you no bps, so nothing to celebrate
d) in no post did i ever complain, just point out a counter argument

once again, you did not read what i wrote, but go back to your same argument
then you insult people because they must be bad players just b/c they see a flaw in your logic
at least five long term players have NICELY tried to explain this issue to you, and even heard and agreed with some parts of your philosophy (me included)
the more you write, the more you show ignorance of this topic and why there is a discussion here
want some insight: since you entered this thread look at the likes on your posts vs. every other post, including those in favour of spam/ changing nothing
i'm done trying to keep you and this thread civil and on topic
 

DeletedUser54775

Guest
a) who said one guy sent all those attacks?
b) who said anyone was able to log into the system for days with that many reports?
this is a point many have tried to make to you but you gloss over b/c it doesn't work for you
c) the point of true spam attacks is they give you no bps, so nothing to celebrate
d) in no post did i ever complain, just point out a counter argument

once again, you did not read what i wrote, but go back to your same argument
then you insult people because they must be bad players just b/c they see a flaw in your logic
at least five long term players have NICELY tried to explain this issue to you, and even heard and agreed with some parts of your philosophy (me included)
but the more you write, the more you show ignorance of this topic and why there is a discussion here
i'm done trying to keep you and this thread civil and on topic
Rachel,
1) I can not keep repeating it. If you have an issue with that player or alliance, deal with them directly.
If your suggestions would not affect me, then I would be fine. However, you are suggesting changes that affect the game fundamentally.
Why are you trying to change rules that will affect my ability to resist bigger alliances or larger number of players?

2) Seriously...guys...take on the guy directly IN the game. If it is an alliance, then hunt down the alliance. You need to do your work IN the game.
Do the math. No attack is for free. You guys are simply not been able to deal with a problem and your ineptitude as a group is making you come and cry foul play.

I am seriously thinking what is your problem because I already figured out at least three possible solutions within the game that would kill that guy or alliance.

For the sake of argument.
Be really specific. Tell me the number of cities. Where they were located and how he sent the attacks. The number of players in the alliance.
I can give you suggestions.
It is simple math.
It costs more to the player who sent attacks than the one that receives them.
The difference in the information gathered. This is the premium price that the attacker is paying for the extra cost of sending fake attacks.
 
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