The Occupy Movement

[Lugosi]

I disagree completely Justin; Shouldn't we be able to achieve the achievable, not left to know what it is possible we can do, but not be allowed... We shouldn't settle for second best, we should have what is rightfully ours, and it's the English attitude that has got us into this position. You clearly showed this attitude:

"Life is unfair. May aswell get on with it whilst we still have it."

Yes and we can, you just have to look in the right places and find the right path for you by which I mean - can't get the job you want? approach a similar line of work, think of looking for the job in a different area of the country or world. You can't get everything in life though, that wouldn't be just and would coincide with itself. We are in a economic depression, we have been before and have to come out of it. Yes, we maybe paying in the neck but that occurs in all world issues; war, poverty etc so why should that be any different than this? People will always suffer through leaders decisions, you can never predict the reaction upon every walk of life. Just because the poor are recieving the tailend of it all, it does not mean the rich are getting away with it. Yes they pay the same tax which everyone else does and yes they could easily give more towards the economy and ease the pressure but if that was your money would you want to give it away? much like Japan, India and Germany in WWII. They're economies were booming whilst everyone elses was stale mate. They went on the offensive to defend their economies. This applies to our new government too I hope, they should be defending what economy we have and encouraging it to grow. I guess an effect of this is we will all have to pay equally. The poor cannot get special treatment because that would be unfair on the rich however much money they have. I know it may seem unfair but they have to treat everyone equally as an act of fairness and thats what the government are supposed to be isn't it? fair actions in achieving a well led and progressing nation.

This upcoming generation of people seems to have an issue in approaching life, many seem to disobey because they have little morality and fail the education system because they're just not focused on the importance of education and the fact that they will need it to get where they want. How can they expect to get their desired life if they don't fit the specifications of it? You don't turn on lights by staring at the bulb . .

Of course what is to blame? Up to a certain extent parents, up to another extent the outside world. I think this generation needs some set of morals to set life against. I don't think religion is too bad. I go to a catholic school; you don't have to believe what the Bible says exactly. God is what you make of him imo, for instance in my mind he is not a superior being; he is an equal much like the God in that futurama episode

I feel as if I've contradicted myself there and got carried away but oh well it'll do.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do think the corporate big wigs (not the corporations themselves) are wrong. There is no reason to make as much money as they do at the expense of the little man. That being said, if Americans would stop with their "entitled" mentality, and stop asking for hand outs, and get the government under control, and revamp the tax codes, we'd have more jobs locally, because companies would stop taking them overseas....

What constitutes getting "government under control" ?

 

[DeletedUser]

I do think the corporate big wigs (not the corporations themselves) are wrong. There is no reason to make as much money as they do at the expense of the little man. That being said, if Americans would stop with their "entitled" mentality, and stop asking for hand outs, and get the government under control, and revamp the tax codes, we'd have more jobs locally, because companies would stop taking them overseas....

Evarua says "What constitutes getting 'government under control'"

 

[DeletedUser]

Anyone can quote 2 different lines in a paragraph and make it sound completely different. What I said was completely true AND sain.

I agree that anybody could do that but I believe you've misunderstood my post. I only found it silly for you to say that rich families have children as if Skully or anybody else would not know that.

What I found ironic was your judging the intelligence of Skully's post while dispalying a tenuous grasp on spelling and grammar throughout your post.

oh look, I cut out half of your words, irony.

Since you've displayed your ability to do this and I have not, I have dedicated hours of my time to studying some of your posts and I've come up with this quote:

america and England have children. Either way, my dad is mighty ignorent, and should "Stop whining and get to work"

Which I completley agree with, irony.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree that anybody could do that but I believe you've misunderstood my post. I only found it silly for you to say that rich families have children as if Skully or anybody else would not know that.

What I found ironic was your judging the intelligence of Skully's post while dispalying a tenuous grasp on spelling and grammar throughout your post.



Since you've displayed your ability to do this and I have not, I have dedicated hours of my time to studying some of your posts and I've come up with this quote:



Which I completley agree with, irony.

You're on a roll today.

 

[DeletedUser6029]

There is no logical sense or reason a garbage man should make as much as a doctor. That is just stupid logic......Handouts is wrong. Keep business in the country, allow for folks to WORK for their riches, redo the tax code and get lobbyist out of Washington.

 

[DeletedUser340]

Fair to mention my dad? No.

Bang out mate.

 

[DeletedUser]

There is no logical sense or reason a garbage man should make as much as a doctor. That is just stupid logic......Handouts is wrong. Keep business in the country, allow for folks to WORK for their riches, redo the tax code and get lobbyist out of Washington.

There is no logical reason that he shouldn't be able to, I agree. A Garbage Man could put just as much effort into his job as a Doctor can. Anything else is just stupid logic. Handouts shouldn't be given just because we interpret certain careers as more prestigious, but pay should be based upon merit. Blah blah blah Washington, etc.

Fair to mention my dad? No.

Sorry for following your example.

 

[DeletedUser]

I completely support the occupy movement all over the world. I hate how the media lie, paint the movement as a whole unreasonably badly and twist the facts - particularly Fox News but what more can we expect from them?

Coorporations are not people, they are machines and should be treated as such. Taxing them more is not going to damage; this is a phony claim made be fools who cannot look into the past for guidance. The rich and coorporations do not proportaionally pay the same amount of taxes as the middle and lower classes; that is undeniably unfair. There is no correlation with lower taxes and job creation, in fact the opposite is true. I can't find a table showing this and will update asap when i find it but over the past 50 or so years when the tax rate for bussiness' has been highest job creation was also at its highest which is in comparison to George Bush's very low tax rate and low job creation rate. Why won't people listen to Warren Buffet?

Anyway, I am blabbering as always (it's like 2am - i'm tired). If your looking for some good left-wing opinions on Occupy Wall Street and other occupy protests watch TheYoungTurks; they give you the facts first and then discuss which is less biased than more news outlets.

 

[DeletedUser6029]

There is no logical reason that he shouldn't be able to, I agree. A Garbage Man could put just as much effort into his job as a Doctor can. Anything else is just stupid logic. Handouts shouldn't be given just because we interpret certain careers as more prestigious, but pay should be based upon merit. Blah blah blah Washington, etc.



Sorry for following your example.

LOL Raurio, why don't you go have your heart operated on by a garbage man, and then tell me how similar in importance they are. When I was a kid, we took our own trash to the dump....convenience doesn't not equal a doctor...

I completely support the occupy movement all over the world. I hate how the media lie, paint the movement as a whole unreasonably badly and twist the facts - particularly Fox News but what more can we expect from them?

Coorporations are not people, they are machines and should be treated as such. Taxing them more is not going to damage; this is a phony claim made be fools who cannot look into the past for guidance. The rich and coorporations do not proportaionally pay the same amount of taxes as the middle and lower classes; that is undeniably unfair. There is no correlation with lower taxes and job creation, in fact the opposite is true. I can't find a table showing this and will update asap when i find it but over the past 50 or so years when the tax rate for bussiness' has been highest job creation was also at its highest which is in comparison to George Bush's very low tax rate and low job creation rate. Why won't people listen to Warren Buffet?

Anyway, I am blabbering as always (it's like 2am - i'm tired). If your looking for some good left-wing opinions on Occupy Wall Street and other occupy protests watch TheYoungTurks; they give you the facts first and then discuss which is less biased than more news outlets.

FYI saka....I have missed you

now , The problem isn't in the taxing, it is in the politics...once the open trade agreement went into effect for example, there was no reason, nor penalty for American companies to stay or leave.....Now however there is, and they go. Taxing them sin't going to help, they just move their bulk of money elsewhere. Tax the CEO's who are the greedy people, but keep the incorporation separate from the people...they are not one and the same.

 

[DeletedUser]

LOL Raurio, why don't you go have your heart operated on by a garbage man, and then tell me how similar in importance they are. When I was a kid, we took our own trash to the dump....convenience doesn't not equal a doctor...

I don't believe it's fair to judge the importance of a Garbageman based upon his open heart surgery skills, but to be fair I guess I could be wrong and a Garbageman could fail me at some time in my life because he couldn't perform the open heart Surgery I desperately needed.

Doctors probably are essential for their famed open heart surgery skills and Garbageman were nonexistent in the lands whence you've sprouted from , but I don't believe convenience is the purpose of Garbagemen in most areas. It would not be realistic for a city to not have some form of public waste disposal; most dumps aren't that close to the city, congestion on roads, people who'd be too lazy, and there would be health problems posed by an inevitable build-up of garbage because of an inefficient system of disposal and that would require more Doctors.

 

[DeletedUser]

LOL Raurio, why don't you go have your heart operated on by a garbage man, and then tell me how similar in importance they are. When I was a kid, we took our own trash to the dump....convenience doesn't not equal a doctor...

I choose to use a better example... Public school teachers. School teachers are just as important as doctors and work just as hard. Why should they be paid any less?

 

[DeletedUser6029]

I choose to use a better example... Public school teachers. School teachers are just as important as doctors and work just as hard. Why should they be paid any less?

Same concept applies....why don't you have a Teacher operate on your heart.

 

[DeletedUser]

Same concept applies....why don't you have a Teacher operate on your heart.

Why don't you have a doctor teach your children?

Neither profession is better or worst and therefore they should be paid the same.

 

[DeletedUser]

I can agree with some of the things that the occupiers are trying to get across. One of them is "help the average citizens". However, what they are doing is extremely counter productive in my area. They have cost the taxpayers over 500,000 dollars in just two counties near me.

 

[DeletedUser6029]

Why don't you have a doctor teach your children?

Neither profession is better or worst and therefore they should be paid the same.

it is the way of the world. You do what you love knowing the financial end of it. You still chose it. If a teacher wanted to make doctor wages, they should have gone to college to be a doctor. Everyone is not entitled to the same wages as everyone else. Sorry. A doctor goes to school for 12 years, a teacher 4. A docter can kill you or save your life based on that knowledge, a teacher doesn't.

 

[DeletedUser]

A docter can kill you or save your life based on that knowledge, a teacher doesn't.

Teachers make Doctors.

 

[DeletedUser]

What I have never understood is why people think someone who's rich should pay more % of their income then someone else, while I hate the fact that there are the fat cats that more or less control the world, they've done something "special" to get to where they are. Rich corporations must do something good? I like what Apple produces, as far as I'm concerned, they more than deserve to be excessively rich. Overly taxing the rich is like punishing them for having done good for themselves. Most of the tax revenue comes from them already, squeeze the living life out of their wallets until everyone is equal? As far as I'm concerned people who think like this need a decent reminder that life is not equal People do not deserve to be equal in their living ways because simply put people do different things. A garbage man does not deserve to have the same income as a doctor, the closest example I can think of in two different jobs deserving the same income is an electrician and the dude that installs the water system thing in your house (I don't know how to say it in english), they are of more or less the same importance and do a lot of the same just with different stuff.
I would love to have the same money after tax that one of the fat cats have but that will probably never happen. I don't expect them to be taxed more, tbh if it's thought of properly, most of the tax revenue comes from people who will not use most of the things that the tax revenue is spent on. Lets say a dude who needs to pay $$90000 in tax and compare to someone who pays $$1000 in tax, they will both "have access" to some sort of goverment funded things like street lighting, paved roads, cheap/free public schools, military, public transport and whatever else. The dude who pays $$90000 is probably not going to send his kids to public school or use public transport? Yet he is still paying for it, another one, extending water services and electricity to rural areas, all extremely costly, probably funded by the rich, yet in no way shape or form is of use to them. Yea I agree everyone needs to pay their share. Yet (I will give an unresearched figure simply as an example here) asking people who lets say fund 70% of tax revenue already and probably don't use 90% of what it's spent on, to start paying even more is absurd.
The only thing unfair is equality, yea the gap between a rich man and a poor man should not be 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (insert currency), it should in no way be 0$ or even close. That's why it's called rich and poor, and that's why communism failed miserably. Stick with the logical way of life .

~~As a last note, I have not been following Occupy too much, I just saw brief comments on "charge the rich feed the poor" and gave my view on it !

I fail to see why people shouldn't live life equally. Are you saying that people become doctors just for the pay. not to help people? If you think like that then it just shows how greedy people are these days.

 

[DeletedUser]

Dom.

I'm sure that if you compare the importance between all professions, you will find that their importance is all dependant on the situation at hand.

The doctor gets higher pay is not because that they have an higher education. It is more simply to say that the government pays a higher amount to doctors because right now, they need them more.


There are a lot of jobs that either give a little too much or too less. Eg. The Senet. But who are we to judge that should a life giving security guard should get more of than a cashier.

O also Dom, you don't disagree with taxing corporation? Why not? In fact, why not decrease the minimum wage so more jobs can be create? -sarc

We don't want corporations to threaten the government by using jobs as an hostage. Corporation shouldn't be able to push the government so much.Instead, they should listen and bend to some degree into acceptable terms list out by government. Since we live in a capitalist world, the terms should allow profit to be made.
The Tesco case is one example of corporation threatening the government with jobs.


Btw: As far as I can see, corporations can dodge taxes very well.


Also I agree with Justin's statement that America need to go on offensive to save their economy, much like how Japan after WW2. But This can not be done without direct intervention into trade policies, and instituting better regulations and protectionism. Maybe thats why people are protesting.

 

[DeletedUser]

You have stated there is no reason why corporate big wigs should make as much money as they do at the expense of the little man. Why? You have also stated there is no reason why a garbage man should make as much as a doctor. Why?

The least bit of logic is fatal to all sophistries...